Subject: Information processing in autism.
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@KatyElphinstone @markc568 @cordova5029 I find it relates to my, and I believe that of many other Autists, fascination with what Georges Perec named the infra-ordinary. Observing what is so ordinary that many others (mostly neurotypicals?) just don't see anymore. Also looking at things from unusual angles.
For instance I find that what I photograph and how is typically Autistic (which you can check at https://www.flickr.com/photos/acrostich/?)
@panda @KatyElphinstone @markc568 I wish I could see because I bet I'd find those pictures autistic
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That means that we humans rely a great deal on priors. Stuff we already know.
We are actually ‘seeing’ far less of what’s in front of us that we’d imagine. We’re mostly ‘filling in the gaps’…
It does make sense, of course. I guess that’s how you can drive all the way home from work without noticing.
@KatyElphinstone Priors are also key in both monotropism and the free energy principle in reducing the discrepancy between our mental model of the world and the world as we experience it.
The link between these theories was made by Dinah Murray who presented with Damian Milton and Jonathan Green at one of Karl Friston's seminar in 2019.
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@panda @KatyElphinstone @markc568 I wish I could see because I bet I'd find those pictures autistic
@cordova5029 @KatyElphinstone @markc568 Sorry these are not accessible to you. Georges Perec, however has been translated in English. So if that tickles your interest there may be audio versions of some of his books.
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@cordova5029 @KatyElphinstone @markc568 Sorry these are not accessible to you. Georges Perec, however has been translated in English. So if that tickles your interest there may be audio versions of some of his books.
@panda @KatyElphinstone @markc568 oh, I just wondered what sorts of stuff you photoed
I"m guessing you click things like, random cool door handles, neat toilets, cool towels, other random just, things? -
@panda @KatyElphinstone @markc568 oh, I just wondered what sorts of stuff you photoed
I"m guessing you click things like, random cool door handles, neat toilets, cool towels, other random just, things?@cordova5029 @KatyElphinstone @markc568 I did take a pic of a very minimalistic toilet a few months ago. I've taken pics of doors, more of door knockers than handles. Random things such things abandoned or lost, brooms, clouds, etc. Also pics of clouds and close up of things just for the texture or pattern they exhibit (e.g. tree bark). I rarely take pics of people (and the very few I take I usually don't publish).
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@cordova5029 @KatyElphinstone @markc568 I did take a pic of a very minimalistic toilet a few months ago. I've taken pics of doors, more of door knockers than handles. Random things such things abandoned or lost, brooms, clouds, etc. Also pics of clouds and close up of things just for the texture or pattern they exhibit (e.g. tree bark). I rarely take pics of people (and the very few I take I usually don't publish).
@panda @KatyElphinstone @markc568 I'd do the same thing I love that.
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I think masking can go pretty deep. To the point one doesn't even know one's doing it, I guess!
@KatyElphinstone This sort of goes back to that other idea someone posted in #neurodivergent a while back. The idea was that, mathematically speaking, no one is ’neurotypical’. The existence of several neurologically similar individuals is simply not probable.
Yet there’s this idea of a ”normal” person presenting in every day life. On the surface it looks like that’s a real thing.
That likely means most people masking to some extent.
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All of this means it can be a) more tiring, and b) more time-consuming for us to move through the world, taking it in.
This can make everyday environments more effortful (more processing load, more filtering required), which can feel more tiring and sometimes slower.
This could also account for why autistic people need a lot of low-stimulus downtime, to recover from it all. Anyone would!
End of thread 🧵
Refs below.
@KatyElphinstone This line of thinking entirely makes sense to me, and ties in with my idea of #autism being due to the lack of a hardwired #EnvironmentalYoke that constrains neurotypical interests and engagement far more strongly than our interests and engagement are constrained. One of the ways that constraint could be exercised is by the #EnvironmentalYoke imposing far more dogmatic #priors than we have. Beds contain pillows, not ravioli!
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All of this means it can be a) more tiring, and b) more time-consuming for us to move through the world, taking it in.
This can make everyday environments more effortful (more processing load, more filtering required), which can feel more tiring and sometimes slower.
This could also account for why autistic people need a lot of low-stimulus downtime, to recover from it all. Anyone would!
End of thread 🧵
Refs below.
@KatyElphinstone Love this thread and the ensuing conversation!
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@KatyElphinstone This line of thinking entirely makes sense to me, and ties in with my idea of #autism being due to the lack of a hardwired #EnvironmentalYoke that constrains neurotypical interests and engagement far more strongly than our interests and engagement are constrained. One of the ways that constraint could be exercised is by the #EnvironmentalYoke imposing far more dogmatic #priors than we have. Beds contain pillows, not ravioli!
Yes. This!
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@KatyElphinstone This sort of goes back to that other idea someone posted in #neurodivergent a while back. The idea was that, mathematically speaking, no one is ’neurotypical’. The existence of several neurologically similar individuals is simply not probable.
Yet there’s this idea of a ”normal” person presenting in every day life. On the surface it looks like that’s a real thing.
That likely means most people masking to some extent.
Yes, I would agree.
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@KatyElphinstone Shallow, and still worthy of care and respect, I should add. People are different; not everyone has the privilege of being born ’nerd able’.
So give your fellow ”alli” (can we please start calling allistic people that?) a hug (if they concent), or at least a pat on the shoulder, for trying their hardest to fit in among the rest of us.
They deserve a bit of encouragement now and then.
Hehe I enjoyed that
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@compost_funeral @x0 @KatyElphinstone I haven't heard this from anybody else but yes! I have to keep my brain from getting bored of work and listening to instrumental or well-known music helps.
Novelty or lyrics generally tend to defeat the purpose and my brain focuses *only* on that input but I can get into a productive groove if I provide just enough non-distracting stimulus.
Doodling or fidgets seem to occupy a similar "keep the distractible monkey mind busy while we do stuff" space.
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@compost_funeral @x0 @KatyElphinstone I haven't heard this from anybody else but yes! I have to keep my brain from getting bored of work and listening to instrumental or well-known music helps.
Novelty or lyrics generally tend to defeat the purpose and my brain focuses *only* on that input but I can get into a productive groove if I provide just enough non-distracting stimulus.
Doodling or fidgets seem to occupy a similar "keep the distractible monkey mind busy while we do stuff" space.
@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I, myself, do not do background music, it's too problematic for my attention, but that might be a case of a problematic overlap, as i'm blind and thus my computer speaks to me. SO trying to be productive while listening to music turns into having to work with two completely incongruous inputs with the same senses, both hearing. I imagine someone who is primarily working with their eyes might have an easier time of it, because they don't have to spend so much mental effort getting the signal from the noise. Agreed on lyrics though, even when i listen to music in general I prefer instrumental electronic music, but even then I'm focusing on it. Listening to it in the car etc.
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@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I, myself, do not do background music, it's too problematic for my attention, but that might be a case of a problematic overlap, as i'm blind and thus my computer speaks to me. SO trying to be productive while listening to music turns into having to work with two completely incongruous inputs with the same senses, both hearing. I imagine someone who is primarily working with their eyes might have an easier time of it, because they don't have to spend so much mental effort getting the signal from the noise. Agreed on lyrics though, even when i listen to music in general I prefer instrumental electronic music, but even then I'm focusing on it. Listening to it in the car etc.
@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I myself don't have the minimum attention quirk but I have a friend that does, and she tends to need to be keeping up two actual tasks in parallel to satisfy it, along with perhaps having music playing in the background.
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Subject: Information processing in autism. Is our style necessarily a deficit?
Why do autistic people find new or high-stimulus environments stressful; even overwhelming?
Why can it seem, at times, we're slower than others? To take in scenes; to mentally process them; to make decisions based on them
This thread is an alternative take on autistic processing style & speed.
(Comments & feedback welcomed, as always!)
#Autism #ActuallyAutistic #EpistemicInjustice #Neurodivergent #AuDHD
@KatyElphinstone awesome thread, thank you very much! You've helped me to see that my big, bulging-eye avatar makes perfect sense!
@autistics -
@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I, myself, do not do background music, it's too problematic for my attention, but that might be a case of a problematic overlap, as i'm blind and thus my computer speaks to me. SO trying to be productive while listening to music turns into having to work with two completely incongruous inputs with the same senses, both hearing. I imagine someone who is primarily working with their eyes might have an easier time of it, because they don't have to spend so much mental effort getting the signal from the noise. Agreed on lyrics though, even when i listen to music in general I prefer instrumental electronic music, but even then I'm focusing on it. Listening to it in the car etc.
@x0 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone Absolutely, I could see doubling-up on a single channel (be it visual, auditory, or something else) would be massively disruptive. I'm a sighted programmer so I don't have the same limitations on which channels I have open but now I'm thinking about playing with which inputs I add to the "fidget" pool to shape my attention.
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@x0 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone Absolutely, I could see doubling-up on a single channel (be it visual, auditory, or something else) would be massively disruptive. I'm a sighted programmer so I don't have the same limitations on which channels I have open but now I'm thinking about playing with which inputs I add to the "fidget" pool to shape my attention.
@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I wonder how viable intensely focusing on, say, reading something while softly petting an animal or interacting with a plushy would work? My mind doesn't handle multiple streams very well, if I'm spending concentration on petting a cat I start to drift on snippets of audio at any normal speed for a blind person though audiobooks are often slow enough by default to not have that problem. I personally know a guy who runs his computer speech at upwards of 600 WPM, has virtual voice conversations with me and others, and is also watching a twitch stream in the background of GDQ or something, all at the same time. Completely baffles me how his brain doesn't melt and how he somehow manages to keep proper attention on everything. My absolute failure to do anything of the sort has resulted in me taking a somewhat negative opinion of neurotypicals who are having an actual conversation with me and are also doing something else at the same time, because I'm under the impression that it compromises their attention, and meanwhile I'm giving them 100% of mine. But my experience with him has had me try and reframe that slightly, or at least I'll look for obvious signs their attention is slipping, like needing me to repeat myself. Hate, hate hate, repeating myself. Especially since I can't guarantee I actually know what all I said! How much am I repeating? A single clause? Or an entire paragraph? It's not as if I draft all my speech ahead of time!
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@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I wonder how viable intensely focusing on, say, reading something while softly petting an animal or interacting with a plushy would work? My mind doesn't handle multiple streams very well, if I'm spending concentration on petting a cat I start to drift on snippets of audio at any normal speed for a blind person though audiobooks are often slow enough by default to not have that problem. I personally know a guy who runs his computer speech at upwards of 600 WPM, has virtual voice conversations with me and others, and is also watching a twitch stream in the background of GDQ or something, all at the same time. Completely baffles me how his brain doesn't melt and how he somehow manages to keep proper attention on everything. My absolute failure to do anything of the sort has resulted in me taking a somewhat negative opinion of neurotypicals who are having an actual conversation with me and are also doing something else at the same time, because I'm under the impression that it compromises their attention, and meanwhile I'm giving them 100% of mine. But my experience with him has had me try and reframe that slightly, or at least I'll look for obvious signs their attention is slipping, like needing me to repeat myself. Hate, hate hate, repeating myself. Especially since I can't guarantee I actually know what all I said! How much am I repeating? A single clause? Or an entire paragraph? It's not as if I draft all my speech ahead of time!
@x0 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone When I was much younger, high school or so, I spent a lot of time in IRC where I would regularly keep up with 5 conversations at once and even split threads to have two conversations with one person.
I don't think I can do that anymore but I couldn't say how or why that changed.
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@x0 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone When I was much younger, high school or so, I spent a lot of time in IRC where I would regularly keep up with 5 conversations at once and even split threads to have two conversations with one person.
I don't think I can do that anymore but I couldn't say how or why that changed.
@gooba42 @compost_funeral @KatyElphinstone I can have two conversations with one person, verbally or textually, and I can maintain multiple text conversations in general so long as the actual rate of communication isn't ridiculously fast and that the emotional context of all the conversations in question is relatively similar. Having a conversation where I'm very emotionally involved and sad with one person and having a chipper conversation with someone else starts running into context switching overhead, what I saw one website call monotropic split, I think? Effort required to wrench brain from one path to another. Meanwhile, I cannot easily maintain an ongoing voice conversation while doing that, and if I'm on a voice chat platform and people are talking even in the background it disrupts my ability to write and read, but again, screen reader.
