I seem to come across a lot of #retrocomputing videos, but I've noticed an odd new trend.
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@apzpins kids today..
harumph.
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@mrcopilot I had a long argument with people on one FD Mavica camera's Youtube comments. People were confidently claiming the image quality was obviously dog shit, without really knowing that a 120kb 1280x960 JPEG image can be pretty decent. I had one of those back when they were a thing and the floppy was one point why I bought it. People crapping on the floppy never got to experience offloading a camera full of pictures over the serial port.
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I seem to come across a lot of #retrocomputing videos, but I've noticed an odd new trend. Usually a retrocomputing video is done by someone with one foot in the grave (you know, my age) and they cherish the limitations these magnificent machines had. I've now come across several videos where the fact that an old computer has 128 kilobytes of RAM or a 3.5" HD floppy holds 1.44 megabytes is somehow the best joke ever to a 20-something Youtube influencer. They are basically dying of laughter as they explain away, constantly reminding us of the facts like "L-O-L 1.44 megs? *uncontrolled laughter* You can't fit a single modern phone camera picture onto those *more laughter*". I just watch all this with a poker face, expecting the joke dawn on me but the video ends before I get it. Dude, your 2 terabyte USB drive is going to be super unimpressive in 2066.
My oldest pinball machine has 4 kilobytes of ROM. My newest one has 8 gigabyte OTA firmware update images. To me it's just a thing of the times.
@apzpins I think that's not really the norm, but I definitely have to admit that someone not getting that tech improves over time, thus tech from a long time ago will be very different is definitely pretty bad. I mean, even flash media and etc have come a long way just in that person's lifetime. They were probably born around the time where it was still pretty normal to buy a USB drive around 256MB or something, yet now you can get hundreds of gigs for pocket change. Heck, you can get a microsdxc in 1tb these days (albeit a bit costly, but I mean, a thing the size of a fingernail in a terabyte...) Anyone who looks at Moore's law and laughs is just, well, not paying attention...
Most youngers I've spoken with at least didn't do this. FWIW I guess.
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@apzpins I think that's not really the norm, but I definitely have to admit that someone not getting that tech improves over time, thus tech from a long time ago will be very different is definitely pretty bad. I mean, even flash media and etc have come a long way just in that person's lifetime. They were probably born around the time where it was still pretty normal to buy a USB drive around 256MB or something, yet now you can get hundreds of gigs for pocket change. Heck, you can get a microsdxc in 1tb these days (albeit a bit costly, but I mean, a thing the size of a fingernail in a terabyte...) Anyone who looks at Moore's law and laughs is just, well, not paying attention...
Most youngers I've spoken with at least didn't do this. FWIW I guess.
@nazokiyoubinbou I see this already with younger colleagues. They are shocked to see LCD screen laptops that are like Lord of the Rings book level thick. Some even ask why didn't they make them slimmer, which is the point where draggables are pulled into the conversation.
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@nazokiyoubinbou I see this already with younger colleagues. They are shocked to see LCD screen laptops that are like Lord of the Rings book level thick. Some even ask why didn't they make them slimmer, which is the point where draggables are pulled into the conversation.
@apzpins Wow... I just... I don't get this level of unawareness. Tech changes. They must have seen this in their own lifetimes even surely?
I realize the Age of Enshittification has changed a lot of this. A lot of things are kind of stagnating, getting better only on paper, but even so...
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@apzpins Wow... I just... I don't get this level of unawareness. Tech changes. They must have seen this in their own lifetimes even surely?
I realize the Age of Enshittification has changed a lot of this. A lot of things are kind of stagnating, getting better only on paper, but even so...
@nazokiyoubinbou The progress is relatively slow right now and has been for a while. We're not seeing that much of revolution any more in almost anything. Just safe evolutionary steps that are carefully calculated not to backfire. That has been the direction since early 2000s after the big players had cemented their positions.
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@nazokiyoubinbou The progress is relatively slow right now and has been for a while. We're not seeing that much of revolution any more in almost anything. Just safe evolutionary steps that are carefully calculated not to backfire. That has been the direction since early 2000s after the big players had cemented their positions.
@apzpins I feel like it really started much much more recently. Mid 2010s or so really. Up until then we really were seeing lots of really big changes in a lot of things.
I still remember how exciting it was getting a really good MP3 player in something like 2008-ish. I held onto a 2003-ish model PokectPC/Windows Mobile device until something like 2012 back when Android was still actually really neat rather than an oppressive spy tool.
I'd say most of the worst of things began more like 2015 or so. That's around the time companies started doubling down more and more on the worst things, no matter the harm and that's around the time the shifts in tech started being more about maximizing short term profit margins no matter the cost with morals being thrown out the window officially.
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@apzpins I feel like it really started much much more recently. Mid 2010s or so really. Up until then we really were seeing lots of really big changes in a lot of things.
I still remember how exciting it was getting a really good MP3 player in something like 2008-ish. I held onto a 2003-ish model PokectPC/Windows Mobile device until something like 2012 back when Android was still actually really neat rather than an oppressive spy tool.
I'd say most of the worst of things began more like 2015 or so. That's around the time companies started doubling down more and more on the worst things, no matter the harm and that's around the time the shifts in tech started being more about maximizing short term profit margins no matter the cost with morals being thrown out the window officially.
@apzpins I guess that's more than ten years ago now, so a lot of people may have grown up with most of their memories being after the change even my my more conservative measure of when all this began.
A twenty-year-old today would have been alive in, say 2010, but they would have been so young I suppose I can see why they might struggle to remember how tech was back then.
Still, laughing at storage sizes just feels weird. That's one thing that has increased a lot, even if it has slowed.
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@apzpins I feel like it really started much much more recently. Mid 2010s or so really. Up until then we really were seeing lots of really big changes in a lot of things.
I still remember how exciting it was getting a really good MP3 player in something like 2008-ish. I held onto a 2003-ish model PokectPC/Windows Mobile device until something like 2012 back when Android was still actually really neat rather than an oppressive spy tool.
I'd say most of the worst of things began more like 2015 or so. That's around the time companies started doubling down more and more on the worst things, no matter the harm and that's around the time the shifts in tech started being more about maximizing short term profit margins no matter the cost with morals being thrown out the window officially.
@nazokiyoubinbou The gold rush was more on the mobile device segment, where the things you mentioned really took off. But if you think about an average laptop from early 2000s, it strongly resembles what we have these days. But a 286 or 386 laptop, now that thing might look a lot more alien!
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@nazokiyoubinbou The gold rush was more on the mobile device segment, where the things you mentioned really took off. But if you think about an average laptop from early 2000s, it strongly resembles what we have these days. But a 286 or 386 laptop, now that thing might look a lot more alien!
@apzpins Ah hah, but even in that there truly were some actual truly neat things that they experimented with. First stuff like the netbooks (remember EeePCs?) but then also stuff like 2-in-1s that actually were 2-in-1 (thanks to the Intel Atom SoC. But, of course, Intel stopped doing that because... uhm... ... Anyway they stopped doing that.)
And it's kind of two-sided. Most people never even knew of those little devices with the SoCs because companies like HP were busy convincing them that they needed to be spending 3x for behemoths that could play games half as well as an equivalent desktop PC, so no one even thought in terms of "maybe something light and portable is better at being light and portable?"
It's kind of a two-sided thing really in that people go along...
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@apzpins Ah hah, but even in that there truly were some actual truly neat things that they experimented with. First stuff like the netbooks (remember EeePCs?) but then also stuff like 2-in-1s that actually were 2-in-1 (thanks to the Intel Atom SoC. But, of course, Intel stopped doing that because... uhm... ... Anyway they stopped doing that.)
And it's kind of two-sided. Most people never even knew of those little devices with the SoCs because companies like HP were busy convincing them that they needed to be spending 3x for behemoths that could play games half as well as an equivalent desktop PC, so no one even thought in terms of "maybe something light and portable is better at being light and portable?"
It's kind of a two-sided thing really in that people go along...
@nazokiyoubinbou Oh the EEE PCs. Damn those were bad. I liberated some and put light Linux distros on them, which was probably one of the most successful non tech person relative Linux experiment I've done.
I still don't quite get the gaming PC genre; often very expensive machines that have to do pretty big compromises on the performance. To worsen the deal they usually literally break apart quite fast as the run hot and the plastic can't take it.
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@nazokiyoubinbou Oh the EEE PCs. Damn those were bad. I liberated some and put light Linux distros on them, which was probably one of the most successful non tech person relative Linux experiment I've done.
I still don't quite get the gaming PC genre; often very expensive machines that have to do pretty big compromises on the performance. To worsen the deal they usually literally break apart quite fast as the run hot and the plastic can't take it.
@apzpins Well, it's true the EeePCs had extremely weak hardware. Their goal was to make something light, efficient, and extremely affordable. Its whole design was built around basically making a lot of compromises. But, then again, isn't that true of quite a lot of the laptops of old? I thought they were good for what they were made to do.
I assume you meant to say "gaming laptops?" I too don't understand the value of them. People spend so much more because they want it to come close to what a desktop can do, but it will never do it as well no matter how much they spend (thermal and overall power limiting are things, not to mention other factors like usually having no dedicated VRAM.) It's... weird... At a certain point if a person is doing this they should just bring a desktop.
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@apzpins Well, it's true the EeePCs had extremely weak hardware. Their goal was to make something light, efficient, and extremely affordable. Its whole design was built around basically making a lot of compromises. But, then again, isn't that true of quite a lot of the laptops of old? I thought they were good for what they were made to do.
I assume you meant to say "gaming laptops?" I too don't understand the value of them. People spend so much more because they want it to come close to what a desktop can do, but it will never do it as well no matter how much they spend (thermal and overall power limiting are things, not to mention other factors like usually having no dedicated VRAM.) It's... weird... At a certain point if a person is doing this they should just bring a desktop.
@nazokiyoubinbou Yeah, sorry. Meant laptops. They face the same issues as CAD workstation laptops, except the price tag has to be sliced in half, which means even more steaming turds than machines like W series Lenovos or Zbook HPs are.
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@nazokiyoubinbou Yeah, sorry. Meant laptops. They face the same issues as CAD workstation laptops, except the price tag has to be sliced in half, which means even more steaming turds than machines like W series Lenovos or Zbook HPs are.
@apzpins It really is a point of fascination and complete confusion and madness for me.
People are forgetting what laptops even are. But companies like HP sure are making a lot of money off of it...
I guess it's just some kind of marketing thing that they've convinced people that they need full blown full (not full) desktop gaming on the go and nothing less will do.
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@apzpins It really is a point of fascination and complete confusion and madness for me.
People are forgetting what laptops even are. But companies like HP sure are making a lot of money off of it...
I guess it's just some kind of marketing thing that they've convinced people that they need full blown full (not full) desktop gaming on the go and nothing less will do.
@nazokiyoubinbou There's a very strong FOMO of having a "weak" computer, to a degree where people wonder out aloud why I often sport a very basic ThinkPad with iGPU for example. It just gets the job done.
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@nazokiyoubinbou There's a very strong FOMO of having a "weak" computer, to a degree where people wonder out aloud why I often sport a very basic ThinkPad with iGPU for example. It just gets the job done.
@apzpins So much this.
I found out that 2-in-1 with its incredibly weak Atom ran smoothly and did all the things I ever needed an actual laptop to actually do. Tiny with a great battery life and it weighed so little. (I miss it so much... Why did it decide to die?
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I seem to come across a lot of #retrocomputing videos, but I've noticed an odd new trend. Usually a retrocomputing video is done by someone with one foot in the grave (you know, my age) and they cherish the limitations these magnificent machines had. I've now come across several videos where the fact that an old computer has 128 kilobytes of RAM or a 3.5" HD floppy holds 1.44 megabytes is somehow the best joke ever to a 20-something Youtube influencer. They are basically dying of laughter as they explain away, constantly reminding us of the facts like "L-O-L 1.44 megs? *uncontrolled laughter* You can't fit a single modern phone camera picture onto those *more laughter*". I just watch all this with a poker face, expecting the joke dawn on me but the video ends before I get it. Dude, your 2 terabyte USB drive is going to be super unimpressive in 2066.
My oldest pinball machine has 4 kilobytes of ROM. My newest one has 8 gigabyte OTA firmware update images. To me it's just a thing of the times.
@apzpins love the lack of introspection.
We needed to be there to get to this point in technology is very much true and not worthy of a laugh -
@apzpins love the lack of introspection.
We needed to be there to get to this point in technology is very much true and not worthy of a laugh@JennyFluff True, and whatever is now supposedly cool, is going to look just as lame to some yet to be born person than the 80s "crap" seems to someone in their teens now.
