The end of Windows 10 and the terrible state of Windows 11 are driving more and more people to Linux.
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@latenightlinux I can assume its already overwhelming picking a Distro. To keep users on Linux you mist be able to survive without ever using a Terminal
@watchfulcitizen @latenightlinux I don‘t like that “you shouldn’t have to use the terminal” argument. In the last years I only HAD to use the terminal to repair stuff, where windows would probably require a reinstall or recovery boot. Something the regular user is not able to just as well as using the terminal. Of course this is my experience for regular home users and office work. Granted you need compatible and reliable hardware.
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@watchfulcitizen @latenightlinux I don‘t like that “you shouldn’t have to use the terminal” argument. In the last years I only HAD to use the terminal to repair stuff, where windows would probably require a reinstall or recovery boot. Something the regular user is not able to just as well as using the terminal. Of course this is my experience for regular home users and office work. Granted you need compatible and reliable hardware.
@watchfulcitizen @latenightlinux the overwhelming issue for me, getting people to switch is: specific tools especially for businesses, unfamiliarity and unwillingness (I am not blaming them) to learn something they genuinely are not interested in aka computer stuff.
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@purrperl @latenightlinux that somewhat exists. I haven't tried it though.
operese
operese - Windows to Linux migration tool. Alpha-quality and not yet recommended for non-development use.
Codeberg.org (codeberg.org)
@joeress @purrperl @latenightlinux that would be an interesting tool to test drive on a bare windows install with just a few test files. I feel the urge to throw that in a vm this weekend.
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I participated as a volunteer on three #endof10 install events organized by our community college here in #karlsruhe germany.
We met before to discuss what distributions to offer, what questions to ask the new users (problematic existing software or hardware, how they use the computer, etc).
When we picked #Ubuntu LTS, #LinuxMint and #Fedora we went for the mainstream distros with plenty of available docs and help online. They were installed to try on three demo devices.
We told them how to do the basic things every user needs to know and do.
The feedback weeks after the events was positive.
People there were aged 50+ and very enthusiastic about learning something new.
Currently, the focus shifts away from endof10 and towards #diday (digital independence day).
@patnat @latenightlinux this is great. How many people came and how many installations did you do?
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@patnat @latenightlinux this is great. How many people came and how many installations did you do?
We announced the events three weeks prior and they took place on a saturday, starting at 10AM to about 4PM.
There were about 10 people there for us 7 volunteers at each of the three events, so it was nearly individual support for beginners.
I did two to three installs per event (mostly Ubuntu and Linux Mint installs, because people already heard about them and wanted to have them installed).
I answered questions, told them where to get software, how to print, differences to Windows, etc.
Some brought their PCs and printers to install and test.
The hardware was from 2008 or later.
The people were very grateful and I would participate on other events like this again anytime
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We announced the events three weeks prior and they took place on a saturday, starting at 10AM to about 4PM.
There were about 10 people there for us 7 volunteers at each of the three events, so it was nearly individual support for beginners.
I did two to three installs per event (mostly Ubuntu and Linux Mint installs, because people already heard about them and wanted to have them installed).
I answered questions, told them where to get software, how to print, differences to Windows, etc.
Some brought their PCs and printers to install and test.
The hardware was from 2008 or later.
The people were very grateful and I would participate on other events like this again anytime
@patnat @latenightlinux awesome. I have to take a look for similar events near Aachen.
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@watchfulcitizen @latenightlinux the overwhelming issue for me, getting people to switch is: specific tools especially for businesses, unfamiliarity and unwillingness (I am not blaming them) to learn something they genuinely are not interested in aka computer stuff.
@nowherefast @latenightlinux Fair points, agree with most.
The terminal though, Linux has come a long way. But search how to fix almost anything and the top results still assume terminal, not because there's no GUI way but that's just what lives online. You have to specifically search for a GUI solution to find one, and even then the comment section is half arguing about your distro choice instead of answering the question.
It's honestly the same overwhelming problem as Mastodon. Pick an instance, what the hell is an instance. Pick a distro, and most people coming from Windows don't even know what a distro is. There's a whole middle group between power user and calling IT who will Google a fix and just give up right there.
I love the terminal, it's fast but also fast to destroy something. Regedit is more cryptic and dangerous but it just never shows up at the top of a Google search so it feels safer.
Most of the app gap though, web apps sorted it since devs stopped writing three native versions of everything. Business software is still the exception like you said, and hardware is mostly fine now, though Nvidia is still a damn mess.
Linux is definitely more user friendly once you're in, but the path there is still pretty bumpy for a non technical user. Would love for it to go more mainstream.
I did install Pop!_OS on my father in law's old 2013 Mac though, and other than wrestling with network drivers and writing an rclone backup script he has had 0 complaints.
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@nowherefast @latenightlinux Fair points, agree with most.
The terminal though, Linux has come a long way. But search how to fix almost anything and the top results still assume terminal, not because there's no GUI way but that's just what lives online. You have to specifically search for a GUI solution to find one, and even then the comment section is half arguing about your distro choice instead of answering the question.
It's honestly the same overwhelming problem as Mastodon. Pick an instance, what the hell is an instance. Pick a distro, and most people coming from Windows don't even know what a distro is. There's a whole middle group between power user and calling IT who will Google a fix and just give up right there.
I love the terminal, it's fast but also fast to destroy something. Regedit is more cryptic and dangerous but it just never shows up at the top of a Google search so it feels safer.
Most of the app gap though, web apps sorted it since devs stopped writing three native versions of everything. Business software is still the exception like you said, and hardware is mostly fine now, though Nvidia is still a damn mess.
Linux is definitely more user friendly once you're in, but the path there is still pretty bumpy for a non technical user. Would love for it to go more mainstream.
I did install Pop!_OS on my father in law's old 2013 Mac though, and other than wrestling with network drivers and writing an rclone backup script he has had 0 complaints.
@watchfulcitizen @latenightlinux I totally agree with you. Online troubleshooting mainly focusing on the terminal is a great point I did not consider yet.
Hardware support especially for older hardware is great for some time now. Intel or amd gpu definitely a plus. Although I fare pretty well with nvidia for Vulkan development on Fedora. The only real hardware issues I encountered was mainly sleep/wake, networking and wifi on laptops. -
@nowherefast @latenightlinux Fair points, agree with most.
The terminal though, Linux has come a long way. But search how to fix almost anything and the top results still assume terminal, not because there's no GUI way but that's just what lives online. You have to specifically search for a GUI solution to find one, and even then the comment section is half arguing about your distro choice instead of answering the question.
It's honestly the same overwhelming problem as Mastodon. Pick an instance, what the hell is an instance. Pick a distro, and most people coming from Windows don't even know what a distro is. There's a whole middle group between power user and calling IT who will Google a fix and just give up right there.
I love the terminal, it's fast but also fast to destroy something. Regedit is more cryptic and dangerous but it just never shows up at the top of a Google search so it feels safer.
Most of the app gap though, web apps sorted it since devs stopped writing three native versions of everything. Business software is still the exception like you said, and hardware is mostly fine now, though Nvidia is still a damn mess.
Linux is definitely more user friendly once you're in, but the path there is still pretty bumpy for a non technical user. Would love for it to go more mainstream.
I did install Pop!_OS on my father in law's old 2013 Mac though, and other than wrestling with network drivers and writing an rclone backup script he has had 0 complaints.
@watchfulcitizen @nowherefast @latenightlinux I preface this by saying I prefer NOT using terminal if it can be avoided (even if it can be fun):
My take is that online troubleshooting solutions have always focused on command line, because it's universal. There are a million GUIs for everything, and many of those GUIs could blink out of existence at any moment.
I've rarely met a terminal command that was obsolete. You know what I mean?
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@watchfulcitizen @latenightlinux I totally agree with you. Online troubleshooting mainly focusing on the terminal is a great point I did not consider yet.
Hardware support especially for older hardware is great for some time now. Intel or amd gpu definitely a plus. Although I fare pretty well with nvidia for Vulkan development on Fedora. The only real hardware issues I encountered was mainly sleep/wake, networking and wifi on laptops.@nowherefast @latenightlinux fully agree. Took me some time to set up nividia optimus for Fedora on my laptop. but now its rock solid. Still have the issue of my touchpad turning itself off after suspend wich I haven't really figured out yet.
If Linux native computers would be sold at the mainstream stores I think we would get more adoption. My grandma isnt going to boot a ISO. But I'd bet she would be just dine if it was preeinstalled
