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  3. As a software developer who took an elective in neural networks - when people call LLMs stochastic parrots, that's not criticism of their results.

As a software developer who took an elective in neural networks - when people call LLMs stochastic parrots, that's not criticism of their results.

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  • troed@swecyb.comT troed@swecyb.com

    @leeloo We don't know that there are other things happening in the brain than what we have already documented.

    The belief that there's "magic" happening in the brain is part of the argument between dualists and monists - that there's somehow a "mind" that's separate from the body. So far we've found nothing to support such a claim.

    (My own studies in neuroscience are a decade old but I do follow the discourse)

    leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
    leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
    leeloo@chaosfem.tw
    wrote last edited by
    #73

    @troed
    If we are nothing but input -> math -> output, then human rights don't matter. Murdering someone is no different from switching a device off.

    If that's the world view you want to argue, that's on you.

    It also assumes that there are nothing left to discover. Which has been a mistake every time anyone has made the claim in any other area. Are humans really that much simpler than the rest of the universe?

    To be clear, I did not say that there is any kind of magic involved in human intelligence. I said that the part of "AI" that people get on the defence over when we reduce it to math and software is magic, because unlike humans - where I must remind you that I said we don't know - we know exacly what those datacenters are doing: Math and software.

    troed@swecyb.comT 1 Reply Last reply
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    • leeloo@chaosfem.twL leeloo@chaosfem.tw

      @troed
      If we are nothing but input -> math -> output, then human rights don't matter. Murdering someone is no different from switching a device off.

      If that's the world view you want to argue, that's on you.

      It also assumes that there are nothing left to discover. Which has been a mistake every time anyone has made the claim in any other area. Are humans really that much simpler than the rest of the universe?

      To be clear, I did not say that there is any kind of magic involved in human intelligence. I said that the part of "AI" that people get on the defence over when we reduce it to math and software is magic, because unlike humans - where I must remind you that I said we don't know - we know exacly what those datacenters are doing: Math and software.

      troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
      troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
      troed@swecyb.com
      wrote last edited by
      #74

      @leeloo I'm not arguing for a worldview - I'm just talking about what's the current state of science on the topic.

      leeloo@chaosfem.twL 1 Reply Last reply
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      • troed@swecyb.comT troed@swecyb.com

        @leeloo I'm not arguing for a worldview - I'm just talking about what's the current state of science on the topic.

        leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
        leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
        leeloo@chaosfem.tw
        wrote last edited by
        #75

        @troed
        Yet you couldn't simply let my claim stand that we don't know what lied beyond the current state.

        troed@swecyb.comT 1 Reply Last reply
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        • leeloo@chaosfem.twL leeloo@chaosfem.tw

          @troed
          Yet you couldn't simply let my claim stand that we don't know what lied beyond the current state.

          troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
          troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
          troed@swecyb.com
          wrote last edited by
          #76

          @leeloo My simple input was that "Humans are too!" is an excellent way to answer people bringing up stochastic parrots. Saying that there might be things we don't know about is a bit hand-wavey - it's not an actual argument based in science.

          leeloo@chaosfem.twL 1 Reply Last reply
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          • troed@swecyb.comT troed@swecyb.com

            @leeloo My simple input was that "Humans are too!" is an excellent way to answer people bringing up stochastic parrots. Saying that there might be things we don't know about is a bit hand-wavey - it's not an actual argument based in science.

            leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
            leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
            leeloo@chaosfem.tw
            wrote last edited by
            #77

            @troed
            Now you are back to arguing a world view that would allow murder.

            troed@swecyb.comT 1 Reply Last reply
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            • leeloo@chaosfem.twL leeloo@chaosfem.tw

              @troed
              Now you are back to arguing a world view that would allow murder.

              troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
              troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
              troed@swecyb.com
              wrote last edited by
              #78

              @leeloo I like science. I believe that if more discussions were based in facts the world would be a lot better. I apologize if you feel differently.

              leeloo@chaosfem.twL 1 Reply Last reply
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              • troed@swecyb.comT troed@swecyb.com

                @leeloo I like science. I believe that if more discussions were based in facts the world would be a lot better. I apologize if you feel differently.

                leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
                leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
                leeloo@chaosfem.tw
                wrote last edited by
                #79

                @troed
                Using science to excuse promoting a world view that is fine with murder - now you are starting to sound German...

                (1930/40'es German for those who need everything spelled out).

                troed@swecyb.comT 1 Reply Last reply
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                • leeloo@chaosfem.twL leeloo@chaosfem.tw

                  @troed
                  Using science to excuse promoting a world view that is fine with murder - now you are starting to sound German...

                  (1930/40'es German for those who need everything spelled out).

                  troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
                  troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
                  troed@swecyb.com
                  wrote last edited by
                  #80

                  @leeloo Or maybe I'm advocating a world that won't allow slavery of digital consciousnesses?

                  Link Preview Image
                  The Coming Cognitive Disbelief

                  Both humans and large language models (LLMs) are fundamentally statistical pattern-matching systems with no inherent consciousness or "magic"

                  favicon

                  Things I couldn't find elsewhere (blog.troed.se)

                  leeloo@chaosfem.twL 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • troed@swecyb.comT troed@swecyb.com

                    @leeloo Or maybe I'm advocating a world that won't allow slavery of digital consciousnesses?

                    Link Preview Image
                    The Coming Cognitive Disbelief

                    Both humans and large language models (LLMs) are fundamentally statistical pattern-matching systems with no inherent consciousness or "magic"

                    favicon

                    Things I couldn't find elsewhere (blog.troed.se)

                    leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
                    leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
                    leeloo@chaosfem.tw
                    wrote last edited by
                    #81

                    @troed
                    Ah, so you are the exact kind of person I was talking about in my first post.

                    troed@swecyb.comT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • leeloo@chaosfem.twL leeloo@chaosfem.tw

                      @troed
                      Ah, so you are the exact kind of person I was talking about in my first post.

                      troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
                      troed@swecyb.comT This user is from outside of this forum
                      troed@swecyb.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #82

                      @leeloo Probably - and you're the kind of person who believe humans contain magic fairy dust 😉

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