Edit: better not to suggest anything specific & give free education on tactics, but I think there's a germ of something here.
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I'm also not talking about collaborating or partnering with anyone in ICE.
I'm thinking more of a propaganda campaign than anything (or a psyop). We don't need them to be our friends. They wouldn't be good friends. They wouldn't even make good strategic allies.
These people have been weaponized against us in a million ways. The fash have done *really* effective propagandizing, exploiting their resentment. Have we learned anything from them about how to exploit their resentment?
@artemis I think this is a really good track to go down. Like you said, not to turn them into allies, but just to undermine the enemy.
Like how they don't want to be made fun of, I didn't think they want to be pittied either.
"Look at these sad sack lonely guys, who after everything don't even get their signing bonuses. You know they're not going to get any help when it turns out the shit they're spraying around causes cancer, either. They're not scary, really, just kinda sad and gross."
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@petealexharris
It can be both!In fact, I think that second thing actually can help with the first. They should HATE everything about this experience. They should be frightened of what could happen to them, both now & in the future. We don't let up on them. We don't go "oh we're your friends." Oh no, it is essential to let them know that we see exactly what they are doing, & that we won't forget it. They should be vulnerable, afraid, & isolated.
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I am not the person to ask about strategy for this, but we do have people with the right specialized knowledge, people who have spent a lot of time analyzing the tactics used who could probably extrapolate a thing or two. A lot of those people are probably going to be found here on Fedi.
I appreciate what you're saying. These agents are people (horribly racist, violent, misogynistic, xenophobic assholes), but still people.
Maybe a message like: You can QUIT ANYTIME! JOIN US!
Like that video of Goldie Hawn's son last year, yelling at officers in LA. He expressed righteous anger, yet also spoke to them like humans. With a message like: "Are you proud of what you're doing??" I'll try to find the video.
I think a JUST QUIT! and JOIN US! message could work.
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I appreciate what you're saying. These agents are people (horribly racist, violent, misogynistic, xenophobic assholes), but still people.
Maybe a message like: You can QUIT ANYTIME! JOIN US!
Like that video of Goldie Hawn's son last year, yelling at officers in LA. He expressed righteous anger, yet also spoke to them like humans. With a message like: "Are you proud of what you're doing??" I'll try to find the video.
I think a JUST QUIT! and JOIN US! message could work.
ahh, apparently it wasn't Wyatt Russell. But regardless, this man made some truly excellent points!!
Sorry, That's Not Wyatt Russell in the Viral L.A. Protest Video
A man went viral with a TikTok in which he told off National Guard troops deployed to L.A. amid anti-ICE protests, but it wasn't actor Wyatt Russell.
Rolling Stone (www.rollingstone.com)
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ahh, apparently it wasn't Wyatt Russell. But regardless, this man made some truly excellent points!!
Sorry, That's Not Wyatt Russell in the Viral L.A. Protest Video
A man went viral with a TikTok in which he told off National Guard troops deployed to L.A. amid anti-ICE protests, but it wasn't actor Wyatt Russell.
Rolling Stone (www.rollingstone.com)
here he is.
it's hard to believe this was just 8 mos ago. I think he was yelling at National Guard (not ICE/CBP). Today he would probably be choke-holded, zip tied, and dragged into detention. or worse.
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I am not the person to ask about strategy for this, but we do have people with the right specialized knowledge, people who have spent a lot of time analyzing the tactics used who could probably extrapolate a thing or two. A lot of those people are probably going to be found here on Fedi.
I don't know exactly how good or effective it would be to pursue this specific angle, but I do know that we too need to employ propaganda & social engineering to exploit the weaknesses of our enemies. They don't hesitate to do it to literally *everyone*.
Some important battles are won & lost entirely inside people's minds. So we're going to have to get in their heads.
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I don't know exactly how good or effective it would be to pursue this specific angle, but I do know that we too need to employ propaganda & social engineering to exploit the weaknesses of our enemies. They don't hesitate to do it to literally *everyone*.
Some important battles are won & lost entirely inside people's minds. So we're going to have to get in their heads.
"You can't convince these people to change their minds or make different choices using facts & logic."
Ok, so if we want to influence their behavior, we don't use facts & logic. We use their emotions: fear, disgust, anger, resentment, entitlement, insecurity, whatever.
If we can't win them over we can still make the enemy have to work harder to make use of them. It's not just potential sabotage from within. It's also eroding the things that are used to keep them in line & direct their anger.
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"You can't convince these people to change their minds or make different choices using facts & logic."
Ok, so if we want to influence their behavior, we don't use facts & logic. We use their emotions: fear, disgust, anger, resentment, entitlement, insecurity, whatever.
If we can't win them over we can still make the enemy have to work harder to make use of them. It's not just potential sabotage from within. It's also eroding the things that are used to keep them in line & direct their anger.
It doesn't need to be my concept. That's an idea, a possible avenue. The question is, how DO we use the tactics of the folks at the top against them? We basically have the manipulation playbook by now. We know how we got to this point. We know how they managed to gather up all this anger, hatred, & resentment & use it to fuel horrible violence.
The question is what's the play? How do we derail, confuse, & misinform the lackeys? As we know, they are easily derailed, confused, & misinformed.
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It doesn't need to be my concept. That's an idea, a possible avenue. The question is, how DO we use the tactics of the folks at the top against them? We basically have the manipulation playbook by now. We know how we got to this point. We know how they managed to gather up all this anger, hatred, & resentment & use it to fuel horrible violence.
The question is what's the play? How do we derail, confuse, & misinform the lackeys? As we know, they are easily derailed, confused, & misinformed.
We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
@artemis I think the occasions when one should fight clean are the exceptions.
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
@artemis There's another way of fighting?
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
@artemis A single kick in the testicles will give most people a head start running to safety.
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
We also shouldn't do specific strategizing out in the open (for obvious reasons), so don't put out actual details for anything you are doing or would like to do in the future.
I just want to put the general idea out there & let it percolate in people's heads, because I know we've got a lot of clever folks out there, including folks who are experts on this very type of thing.
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
@artemis if you’re trying to survive, there’s no dirty fighting.
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
@artemis Fascists are prone to vicious infighting, and Trump & company have been reckless about antagonizing their own supposed base, so that's what I'd think should be exploited.
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We are all agreed that we will need to fight dirty sometimes, right?
@artemis Fighting clean is for tournaments. Fighting for survival is - by its very nature - a dirty, nasty, brutish act.
And the fuckers want us *gone.*
Not simply dead, but memory-holed into non-existence.
Let's go for the eyes, knees, groin, and throat. Metaphorically.
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Edit: better not to suggest anything specific & give free education on tactics, but I think there's a germ of something here.
Edit2: this is a thread about possible approaches, not me saying "we should do exactly this".
Idea for a poster to put up in areas with large ICE operations:
"Are you an ICE agent?
Do you have no way out?
Here are 5 easy ways to fuck things up from the inside:"I dunno. Is that anything?
please share the poster design should you succeed in producing it.
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We also shouldn't do specific strategizing out in the open (for obvious reasons), so don't put out actual details for anything you are doing or would like to do in the future.
I just want to put the general idea out there & let it percolate in people's heads, because I know we've got a lot of clever folks out there, including folks who are experts on this very type of thing.
I make no bones about it: I am a propagandist. I literally put it in my bio in the interest of personal honesty.
I love having real, two-way conversations with real people about all kinds of things, but I'm also interested in hacking people's brains. I'm interested in planting ideas, changing minds, & yes, playing on emotion.
Maybe that sounds supervillain-ish to say, but
️A resistance movement needs propaganda too. We need to influence how people think & behave.
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Edit: better not to suggest anything specific & give free education on tactics, but I think there's a germ of something here.
Edit2: this is a thread about possible approaches, not me saying "we should do exactly this".
Idea for a poster to put up in areas with large ICE operations:
"Are you an ICE agent?
Do you have no way out?
Here are 5 easy ways to fuck things up from the inside:"I dunno. Is that anything?
"Want to redeem yourself as an American? Scan this QR code to learn more."
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It doesn't need to be my concept. That's an idea, a possible avenue. The question is, how DO we use the tactics of the folks at the top against them? We basically have the manipulation playbook by now. We know how we got to this point. We know how they managed to gather up all this anger, hatred, & resentment & use it to fuel horrible violence.
The question is what's the play? How do we derail, confuse, & misinform the lackeys? As we know, they are easily derailed, confused, & misinformed.
@artemis I have a feeling it's gonna have to revolve around the CSA ring... Everyone who's had any genuine notion of protecting children is horrified any time we think of it. That's why they're trying so hard to make sure not many of us do. Seems vital to get in the way of that
