EV brake lights are the worst.
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EV brake lights are the worst.
@kajer Is this a position/intensity issue or a "one-pedal-driving" (coasting == braking) issue?
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@kajer Is this a position/intensity issue or a "one-pedal-driving" (coasting == braking) issue?
This is a "one pedal" issue, as most EVs i share the road with tend to flash brakes for no reason whatsoever. #Why are EV drivers letting off the go pedal at any given point on the freeway? who knows, but they flash their brake lights once every few hundred feet for no reason at all.
I have three pedals, so one pedal driving to me does not mean using a combo go/stop pedal.
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This is a "one pedal" issue, as most EVs i share the road with tend to flash brakes for no reason whatsoever. #Why are EV drivers letting off the go pedal at any given point on the freeway? who knows, but they flash their brake lights once every few hundred feet for no reason at all.
I have three pedals, so one pedal driving to me does not mean using a combo go/stop pedal.
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I really liked how the bolt did regen brakes with a flappy paddle behind the steering wheel.
If I had my way, I would say letting off the go pedal in an EV would regen brake to the extent that a standard compression engine could slow, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS.
If you need more regen, then you get the top 10% of the brake pedal or something before the hydraulics engage. Or use a flappy paddle like the bolt for extra braking that will engage the brake lights.
I'm going to stop before I waste the day yelling at the clouds.
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I really liked how the bolt did regen brakes with a flappy paddle behind the steering wheel.
If I had my way, I would say letting off the go pedal in an EV would regen brake to the extent that a standard compression engine could slow, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS.
If you need more regen, then you get the top 10% of the brake pedal or something before the hydraulics engage. Or use a flappy paddle like the bolt for extra braking that will engage the brake lights.
I'm going to stop before I waste the day yelling at the clouds.
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I really liked how the bolt did regen brakes with a flappy paddle behind the steering wheel.
If I had my way, I would say letting off the go pedal in an EV would regen brake to the extent that a standard compression engine could slow, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS.
If you need more regen, then you get the top 10% of the brake pedal or something before the hydraulics engage. Or use a flappy paddle like the bolt for extra braking that will engage the brake lights.
I'm going to stop before I waste the day yelling at the clouds.
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I really liked how the bolt did regen brakes with a flappy paddle behind the steering wheel.
If I had my way, I would say letting off the go pedal in an EV would regen brake to the extent that a standard compression engine could slow, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS.
If you need more regen, then you get the top 10% of the brake pedal or something before the hydraulics engage. Or use a flappy paddle like the bolt for extra braking that will engage the brake lights.
I'm going to stop before I waste the day yelling at the clouds.
@kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata Since the US doesn’t have any regulation (AFAIK) about when brake lights illuminate on EVs, manufacturers probably follow the EU rule that requires the light to come on at 0.13 g deceleration (2023 article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/brake-lights-can-fail-to-provide-fair-warning-on-some-evs-a9533519285/)
Which means that any EV driver flashing their brake lights is likely jerking themselves back and forth inside their cars too. I treat them like any other driver flashing their brake lights, i.e. terrible drivers that need to be avoided.
PS: FWIW I suspect that one-pedal driving is actually poor design, because people who habitually use it tend to forget that they *have* a brake pedal at all, so they are less likely to stomp on it for an emergency stop.
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@kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata Since the US doesn’t have any regulation (AFAIK) about when brake lights illuminate on EVs, manufacturers probably follow the EU rule that requires the light to come on at 0.13 g deceleration (2023 article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/brake-lights-can-fail-to-provide-fair-warning-on-some-evs-a9533519285/)
Which means that any EV driver flashing their brake lights is likely jerking themselves back and forth inside their cars too. I treat them like any other driver flashing their brake lights, i.e. terrible drivers that need to be avoided.
PS: FWIW I suspect that one-pedal driving is actually poor design, because people who habitually use it tend to forget that they *have* a brake pedal at all, so they are less likely to stomp on it for an emergency stop.
@drahardja @kajer @wcbdata Correct, forgetting about the brake pedal is BAD
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I really liked how the bolt did regen brakes with a flappy paddle behind the steering wheel.
If I had my way, I would say letting off the go pedal in an EV would regen brake to the extent that a standard compression engine could slow, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS.
If you need more regen, then you get the top 10% of the brake pedal or something before the hydraulics engage. Or use a flappy paddle like the bolt for extra braking that will engage the brake lights.
I'm going to stop before I waste the day yelling at the clouds.
@kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata personally not a fan of blended brake pedals because the transition from regen to friction braking is... very, very hard to get right. (citation: I own a hybrid that did that exact approach of "typical automatic ICE car deceleration if you lift off, blended brake pedal for any more braking than that")
(although, then, you have the distinction between "regen on the accelerator" and "true one-pedal" (where friction braking is blended into the accelerator when regen isn't possible, or when coming to a complete stop)...)
I feel like the approach I'd prefer - although the only true BEV with regen that I own is a kickscooter - is paddle-adjustable regen like Hyundai/Kia and VW use. that way, it can be easy to coast at zero power, and the brake pedal doesn't have to be calibrated to feel right transitioning from regen to friction brakes because it can just do friction braking, but let me "downshift" when I want regen (and don't require me to hold the paddle ala GM regen paddles). -
@drahardja @kajer @wcbdata Correct, forgetting about the brake pedal is BAD
@ai6yr
I wonder why the driver ahead of you is flashing their brake lights.
@drahardja @kajer @wcbdata -
@kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata Since the US doesn’t have any regulation (AFAIK) about when brake lights illuminate on EVs, manufacturers probably follow the EU rule that requires the light to come on at 0.13 g deceleration (2023 article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/brake-lights-can-fail-to-provide-fair-warning-on-some-evs-a9533519285/)
Which means that any EV driver flashing their brake lights is likely jerking themselves back and forth inside their cars too. I treat them like any other driver flashing their brake lights, i.e. terrible drivers that need to be avoided.
PS: FWIW I suspect that one-pedal driving is actually poor design, because people who habitually use it tend to forget that they *have* a brake pedal at all, so they are less likely to stomp on it for an emergency stop.
@drahardja @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata I've been one-pedal driving since July 2019. About 260,000km. I can assure you the instinct remains very strong to stomp on the brake in an emergency.
You use the brake pedal evertime you are at a stop anyway... the car does not stop if the gas pedal remains depressed at all since regeneration goes away when you are at a stop.
Also... I only flash my brake lights at terrible drivers who feel the need to tailgate me. It seems there are a lot of those.
as for my tail lights flashing because of one pedal driving. This is very obviously not the fault of the driver since they are simply... driving... as the car is designed. This is the fault of manufacturer(s) and regulators being allowed to do whatever they want, and only fix a problem if enough people die.
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@drahardja @kajer @wcbdata Correct, forgetting about the brake pedal is BAD
@ai6yr @drahardja @kajer @wcbdata this is not a thing.
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@ATLeagle @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata
According the Consumer Reports article, some drivers have regenerative braking set more aggressively than they really want, and so keep their foot slightly on the accelerator while slowing. This is bad driving; they should adjust their braking so they don't have to do that.
A similar problem with gas cars happens when a driver has one foot on the gas pedal and one on the brake, causing the brake lights to come on unnecessarily (and wearing out the brakes).
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This is a "one pedal" issue, as most EVs i share the road with tend to flash brakes for no reason whatsoever. #Why are EV drivers letting off the go pedal at any given point on the freeway? who knows, but they flash their brake lights once every few hundred feet for no reason at all.
I have three pedals, so one pedal driving to me does not mean using a combo go/stop pedal.
@kajer @wcbdata
I wish that that all vehicles had an indicator showing when they were decelerating and also how hard. Had a “Cyberlight” in early ‘80s. An extra red taillight that blinked faster and brighter by g-forces alone. It was trialed on NYC taxis and cut rear end collisions by >50%. iirc it was a simple circuit of capacitors with 3 mercury switches at different angles. -
@kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata Since the US doesn’t have any regulation (AFAIK) about when brake lights illuminate on EVs, manufacturers probably follow the EU rule that requires the light to come on at 0.13 g deceleration (2023 article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/brake-lights-can-fail-to-provide-fair-warning-on-some-evs-a9533519285/)
Which means that any EV driver flashing their brake lights is likely jerking themselves back and forth inside their cars too. I treat them like any other driver flashing their brake lights, i.e. terrible drivers that need to be avoided.
PS: FWIW I suspect that one-pedal driving is actually poor design, because people who habitually use it tend to forget that they *have* a brake pedal at all, so they are less likely to stomp on it for an emergency stop.
@drahardja @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata This is indeed bad, but the article is 3 years old and at least 3 of the manufacturers fixed the problem in 2023 both for new cars and retrofitted the old ones, according to statements in the article.
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@drahardja @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata I've been one-pedal driving since July 2019. About 260,000km. I can assure you the instinct remains very strong to stomp on the brake in an emergency.
You use the brake pedal evertime you are at a stop anyway... the car does not stop if the gas pedal remains depressed at all since regeneration goes away when you are at a stop.
Also... I only flash my brake lights at terrible drivers who feel the need to tailgate me. It seems there are a lot of those.
as for my tail lights flashing because of one pedal driving. This is very obviously not the fault of the driver since they are simply... driving... as the car is designed. This is the fault of manufacturer(s) and regulators being allowed to do whatever they want, and only fix a problem if enough people die.
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I really liked how the bolt did regen brakes with a flappy paddle behind the steering wheel.
If I had my way, I would say letting off the go pedal in an EV would regen brake to the extent that a standard compression engine could slow, WITHOUT BRAKE LIGHTS.
If you need more regen, then you get the top 10% of the brake pedal or something before the hydraulics engage. Or use a flappy paddle like the bolt for extra braking that will engage the brake lights.
I'm going to stop before I waste the day yelling at the clouds.
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@drahardja @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata This is indeed bad, but the article is 3 years old and at least 3 of the manufacturers fixed the problem in 2023 both for new cars and retrofitted the old ones, according to statements in the article.
@malaboo What are you talking about?
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@drahardja @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata sure is! supported by driving every single day
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@ATLeagle @kajer @ai6yr @wcbdata
According the Consumer Reports article, some drivers have regenerative braking set more aggressively than they really want, and so keep their foot slightly on the accelerator while slowing. This is bad driving; they should adjust their braking so they don't have to do that.
A similar problem with gas cars happens when a driver has one foot on the gas pedal and one on the brake, causing the brake lights to come on unnecessarily (and wearing out the brakes).
@Anne_Delong @ATLeagle @kajer @wcbdata The kids on my street do this deliberately to burn rubber, LOL
