This whole “he shot a secret service agent with a shotgun” theory various government talking heads are spouting, while DOJ doesn’t even mention the agent in recent court filings, is odd.
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And before anyone gets on my case — unless the agent had a ceramic hard plate in his concealable vest, most shotgun projectiles would go right through it. Even with a plate, at that distance failure is a strong consideration. Even so, the concussive force on the chest would be enormous.
Edit for clarity — level II vests (soft vests) are rated for projectiles the size of 00 buck, but at somewhat lower velocity. Range affects the velocity rapidly. At the muzzle is not the same as across a room.
@mcnado and they are LOUD
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@mcnado and they are LOUD
@mcnado I mean people who generally have firearm experience likely won't have shooting a firearm in an open room experience.
I had an m-60 cook off a blank (thank appropriate deities and luck) in a gp medium tent with no ear pro on and everyone agreed that was truly the loudest thing we'd experienced.
Yay Army training
A 12 gauge has A LOT more powder than a nato 6.72mm training blank. Specs are readily available
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@mcnado The guy’s manifesto said he was using buckshot.
@crdfilm I used to have an old level II vest that had been used for target practice at the Sheriff’s office. The buck went right through it. These vests are probably better, and may have a hard plate, but still…
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@mcnado I mean people who generally have firearm experience likely won't have shooting a firearm in an open room experience.
I had an m-60 cook off a blank (thank appropriate deities and luck) in a gp medium tent with no ear pro on and everyone agreed that was truly the loudest thing we'd experienced.
Yay Army training
A 12 gauge has A LOT more powder than a nato 6.72mm training blank. Specs are readily available
@mcnado I can confidently say for about 20 minutes after the cook off, if someone racked a pump 12 gauge, it would not have been authoritative due to ear ringing
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This whole “he shot a secret service agent with a shotgun” theory various government talking heads are spouting, while DOJ doesn’t even mention the agent in recent court filings, is odd. A 12 gauge shotgun hit to the chest at a few feet’s distance would knock you over backwards, and likely kill you regardless of the vest blocking the shot (which it very well might not). Shotguns also produce a huge muzzle flash, which is not seen on video. Curious.
@mcnado
The whole story is ludicrous. And I don’t see how they can charge him with attempted assassination when he was nowhere near the president. -
@mcnado I can confidently say for about 20 minutes after the cook off, if someone racked a pump 12 gauge, it would not have been authoritative due to ear ringing
@autolycos @mcnado Oof.
Loudest thing I've ever heard was a bike tire exploding in a basement (concrete floor) a few feet from my ear.
Got the "bang" and then complete deafness. Then the whine of my hearing slowly returning, which took about a minute. My hearing hasn't been quite the same since.
Can't imagine something loud enough to take tens of minutes for hearing to return properly...
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@autolycos @mcnado Oof.
Loudest thing I've ever heard was a bike tire exploding in a basement (concrete floor) a few feet from my ear.
Got the "bang" and then complete deafness. Then the whine of my hearing slowly returning, which took about a minute. My hearing hasn't been quite the same since.
Can't imagine something loud enough to take tens of minutes for hearing to return properly...
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This whole “he shot a secret service agent with a shotgun” theory various government talking heads are spouting, while DOJ doesn’t even mention the agent in recent court filings, is odd. A 12 gauge shotgun hit to the chest at a few feet’s distance would knock you over backwards, and likely kill you regardless of the vest blocking the shot (which it very well might not). Shotguns also produce a huge muzzle flash, which is not seen on video. Curious.
@mcnado Certain parties in the government like to advance the theory that whenever a law enforcement agent misses their target and hits something else that they shouldn't have, it's the fault of the person they were shooting at, because if it weren't for them, they wouldn't have been shooting at all. Fuckwit logic. So if one agent shot another, it's really the same thing as if the intended target shot the agent himself. The mental gymnastics to avoid cop responsibility are stunning.
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This whole “he shot a secret service agent with a shotgun” theory various government talking heads are spouting, while DOJ doesn’t even mention the agent in recent court filings, is odd. A 12 gauge shotgun hit to the chest at a few feet’s distance would knock you over backwards, and likely kill you regardless of the vest blocking the shot (which it very well might not). Shotguns also produce a huge muzzle flash, which is not seen on video. Curious.
@mcnado I saw the same thing. No muzzle flash from the shottie. The 9mm the one agent shot showed muzzle flash and also showed the officer shooting way behind the guy. Apparently no one at the academy learned how to lead a moving target. No fucking way the guy put a load of buckshot in anyone. It would have been grisly especially at that short distance.
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@Virginicus @mcnado Depends. In an enclosed space with hard walls, the ricochets end up going *everywhere*.
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@mcnado I mean people who generally have firearm experience likely won't have shooting a firearm in an open room experience.
I had an m-60 cook off a blank (thank appropriate deities and luck) in a gp medium tent with no ear pro on and everyone agreed that was truly the loudest thing we'd experienced.
Yay Army training
A 12 gauge has A LOT more powder than a nato 6.72mm training blank. Specs are readily available
Blanks, lucky there not nearly as loud as the old 7.62's IIRC, nor as damaging to your health 8*)
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@grumble209 seems unlikely that a guy using what was either a .380 or a 38 super, and a pump 12 gauge, would hand load, but who knows. Could be bad video, could be a ricochet, could be many things. I just am having trouble squaring the “shot an agent in the chest from feet away” with “agent left hospital same day” and the available video evidence.
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