Apologies, I was not going to post anymore on Thursday's by-election.... but I've just read this comment by an un-named Labour ministersin the FT:

[zappes@mastodon.online]

@Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 The worst thing about this development is that we now have two democratic parties (Green and CDU) that , in combination, represent most of the country - but one of them sees the other as the antichrist which makes a sensible democratic discourse extremely difficult. The only ones who really benefit from that are the nazis.

[astrocat@masto.bike]

@ChrisMayLA6 they can't even discern the evil anymore

[remittancegirl@mstdn.social]

@ChrisMayLA6 Exactly this.

But I was smelling this coming for a while now, that PLP saw the left as a greater existential threat to its power than Reform.

And that is what convinced me that I belonged to an immoral party and needed to leave it.

[usmu@kind.social]

@celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6
A bit more niche, but the Dutch labor party (PvdA) did exactly the same thing in the 90s and have now merged with the Greens (Groen Links) because they got punished for it hard and went from coalition partner to small opposition party. Not a fan of that, because it causes a lack of diversity of left wing parties, but it is what it is.

Edit: spelling error

[xs4me2@mastodon.social]

@ChrisMayLA6

Exactly...

[usmu@kind.social]

@zappes @Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 It's very similar here in the Netherlands, with the exception the Dutch labor party (PvdA) has now merged with the dutch Greens (Groen Links), after they got decimated in the last election. This is causing a lack of diversity on the left wing that worries me

[heathermj@mastodon.social]

@ChrisMayLA6
They are not going to learn the lesson that moving to the right does not give them support. Thay have the opportunity now to become the Labour Party the country needs. They need to change now before it is too late. They are not going to

[zappes@mastodon.online]

@usmu @Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 And let me guess... Instead of uniting against the Wilders scumbag and his cronies, the new left party and the conservatives prefer to fight the respective other democratic party?

I hate this timeline we are living in.

[usmu@kind.social]

@zappes @Quantillion @ChrisMayLA6 It just happened, so the exact ramifications aren't clear. It looks like the new party (called Groen Links - PvdA for now) is fighting everybody right now. With the Greens being the dominant factor in the merger I am reasonably sure that will not change that much. I'm more worried the lack of a "true" labor option will turn people off from voting left wing. The last election results seem to point in that direction as they were not as good as hoped for.

[gvenema@fairmove.net]

@usmu @celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6

Yes, and the Dutch Greens unfortunately agreed to that merge. Now they are not attractive to left voters, nor to right voters and are left drifting in an impossible split having aimed for a mostly empty center.

[gbargoud@masto.nyc]

@celeduc @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6

Interesting that both Tony Blair and Bill Clinton both had a lot of contact with Epstein at around that time. It's wild how much garbage is tied together.

[celeduc@mastodon.social]

@gbargoud @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 it's all obvious in retrospect (as usual)

[celeduc@mastodon.social]

@gbargoud @Walrus @ChrisMayLA6 Reagan, Thatcher, and the fall of the USSR cleared the way for this vile orgy of the ultra wealthy consuming the earth. The subsequent neoliberal politicians were just ushers passing out towelettes and receiving gratuities.

Some gratuities were peerages, board memberships, juicy speaking gigs, even juicier book deals, and then some of those gratuities were invitations to the literal Trump-Epstein orgies of child rape.

[gotofritz@hachyderm.io]

@ChrisMayLA6

Clearly talking from Labour's POV - the Greens are eating their lunch, Reform are eating the Tories' (broad simplifcation).

The Greens may end up replacing Labour, or at least this is their fear

[ohmrun@indieweb.social]

@ChrisMayLA6
The categorical error they are making is in believing that they can rein in the right once they've dealt with the left.

[ohmrun@indieweb.social]

@Remittancegirl
To a man they believe that if they put the boot in on the left sufficiently that'll free up resources to knobble the right.

What they're *actually* doing is bolting their door so the punters walk straight past into the nazi bar.

@ChrisMayLA6

[inchulk@mastodon.green]

@BarneyDellar @BNorbury @ChrisMayLA6 That is exactly what I wanted to reply, but your words are better!

[gbsills@social.vivaldi.net]

@ChrisMayLA6 Well to be fair the dude is a Labour politician. A Green victory is the worst thing that can happen to Labour, even if it is the best thing that can happen for the company. Politicians think this way.

[amal_@mastodon.social]

@HeatherMJ @ChrisMayLA6

I understand your frustration. It really does feel like they’re missing the point, moving to the right won’t win back trust or enthusiasm. This is their chance to stand firm in their values and become the Labour Party people actually need. If they don’t change course now, they risk losing that chance altogether.

[amal_@mastodon.social]

@ChrisMayLA6

I think that’s a fair reading. When the Scottish National Party moved into a softer left space, it inevitably stepped on ground the Scottish Labour Party long saw as its own. That overlap was always going to sharpen tensions.

And from a Green point of view, the SNP’s habit of holding together different factions can look like careful balancing or papering over cracks. For Labour, though, it probably just feels like being displaced from what they still see as their natural role.