I think i may need a break from mastodon.
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The one thing that probably has the most influence on our beliefs about people are our personal relationships with people different from us, and realizing that they are still people at the end of the day. I don't know why it seems to be a particular quirk of the human soul that we often need a personal example before we can feel empathy, but that seems to just be how it is.
I know people that use Claude or other tools, and that is costing me a lot of mental energy and quite a bit of cognitive dissonance. I know some of these these people are talented, passionate, intelligent people who got into coding for the same reasons we all did. We can believe they are ethically challenged, perhaps. but we are all flawed, messy creatures who make daily ethical compromises in some way.
I'm really honestly surprised that more people here don't personally know anyone that they hold in any regard whatsoever that use an LLM because it seems like I'm the only one struggling with trying to understand why people I know and respect can look at the ethical costs and shrug. (meanwhile vegans are like "lol, first time?")
I know what I'm seeing is the result of a lot of frustration and hopelessness. I don't personally know what to do about it, either. But I'm just worried that we never will as long as we abandon nuance in favor of a perpetual fediverse circlejerk.
I've pretty much disowned my family for their beliefs. I am not ready to give up a good chunk of my friends as well. I can't. I can't just sit here angry at the world, utterly alone.
@gloriouscow I think your stance is reasonable. I think part of my problem is that I see using AI tools to build the future as a deeply personal attack on a worldview I hold dear ("maybe we shouldn't take our knowledge base for granted").
I've found AI stuff utterly hilarious before:
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
God knows I'm not morally consistent 100% of the time (no one is).
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@gloriouscow I think your stance is reasonable. I think part of my problem is that I see using AI tools to build the future as a deeply personal attack on a worldview I hold dear ("maybe we shouldn't take our knowledge base for granted").
I've found AI stuff utterly hilarious before:
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
(www.youtube.com)
God knows I'm not morally consistent 100% of the time (no one is).
i can wax sixteen different ways of cynical about it.
I am not really so much concerned with the affect of software quality long-term as much as I am concerned with our eventual irrelevance.
That assumes a generous prediction of the trajectory of AI, of course. I do believe that AGI will be achieved, and I am absolutely convinced we have no plan for it whatsoever.
I think that people can actually use Copilot to review PRs without that being the end of open source itself and all of civilization, but it is a technological truce at best.
there's been a lot of discussion over what our motivations as programmers even are. I feel my sense of personal pride giving way to thoughts about my legacy and my lasting contributions to the world, and start to wonder, if AI could help me accomplish that, ... well, the intellectual opiate starts to smell temptingly sweet.
There is an undeniable jealousy to see the ease at which people can make their ideas real with a few prompts now.
What would probably help more than Claude is if I could stop starting projects I never fucking finish.
But everything I am struggling to make now feels like I am casting irrelevant, trivial detritus into the turbulent sea of an uncertain future.
oh, I gave the world a cycle-accurate 8088 emulator. I should get a goddamn nobel prize.
I miss feeling optimistic about our future, but I couldn't tell you the last time i did.
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I think i may need a break from mastodon.
it is not an exaggeration to say that the majority of my feed is now just various anti-AI posts.
the people pushing AI aren't here. they are not on your Mastodon instance. When you post about how terrible and ignorant and stupid they are they do not see it, and it's not like that sort of thing persuades anyone even if they did.
I want to keep up with the cool stuff you are all making and doing. But I realize I am not entitled to just pick and choose from the things you find important enough to share, so I am not sure what else to do when I find that reading my feed no longer improves my mental health.
@gloriouscow join us it's fun to take pot shots at the slop bots
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The one thing that probably has the most influence on our beliefs about people are our personal relationships with people different from us, and realizing that they are still people at the end of the day. I don't know why it seems to be a particular quirk of the human soul that we often need a personal example before we can feel empathy, but that seems to just be how it is.
I know people that use Claude or other tools, and that is costing me a lot of mental energy and quite a bit of cognitive dissonance. I know some of these these people are talented, passionate, intelligent people who got into coding for the same reasons we all did. We can believe they are ethically challenged, perhaps. but we are all flawed, messy creatures who make daily ethical compromises in some way.
I'm really honestly surprised that more people here don't personally know anyone that they hold in any regard whatsoever that use an LLM because it seems like I'm the only one struggling with trying to understand why people I know and respect can look at the ethical costs and shrug. (meanwhile vegans are like "lol, first time?")
I know what I'm seeing is the result of a lot of frustration and hopelessness. I don't personally know what to do about it, either. But I'm just worried that we never will as long as we abandon nuance in favor of a perpetual fediverse circlejerk.
I've pretty much disowned my family for their beliefs. I am not ready to give up a good chunk of my friends as well. I can't. I can't just sit here angry at the world, utterly alone.
@gloriouscow @cr1901 "using" claude is blessed because it drains the enemies coffers. it's the paying for it that is cursed.
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@gloriouscow join us it's fun to take pot shots at the slop bots
@gloriouscow you should follow some pretty hashtags @aeva suggested this to me and it saved my life
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@gloriouscow you should follow some pretty hashtags @aeva suggested this to me and it saved my life
@gloriouscow i think i mean to say please stay i enjoy your presence
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@gloriouscow you should follow some pretty hashtags @aeva suggested this to me and it saved my life
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@gloriouscow here's the list I gave @lritter https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@aeva/115947337211705540
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@gloriouscow here's the list I gave @lritter https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@aeva/115947337211705540
@gloriouscow @lritter also I recommend # macrophotography (and the various non-english equivalents) though fair warning it has the occasional closeup on insects. my wife introduced me to that one last night
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The one thing that probably has the most influence on our beliefs about people are our personal relationships with people different from us, and realizing that they are still people at the end of the day. I don't know why it seems to be a particular quirk of the human soul that we often need a personal example before we can feel empathy, but that seems to just be how it is.
I know people that use Claude or other tools, and that is costing me a lot of mental energy and quite a bit of cognitive dissonance. I know some of these these people are talented, passionate, intelligent people who got into coding for the same reasons we all did. We can believe they are ethically challenged, perhaps. but we are all flawed, messy creatures who make daily ethical compromises in some way.
I'm really honestly surprised that more people here don't personally know anyone that they hold in any regard whatsoever that use an LLM because it seems like I'm the only one struggling with trying to understand why people I know and respect can look at the ethical costs and shrug. (meanwhile vegans are like "lol, first time?")
I know what I'm seeing is the result of a lot of frustration and hopelessness. I don't personally know what to do about it, either. But I'm just worried that we never will as long as we abandon nuance in favor of a perpetual fediverse circlejerk.
I've pretty much disowned my family for their beliefs. I am not ready to give up a good chunk of my friends as well. I can't. I can't just sit here angry at the world, utterly alone.
@gloriouscow @cr1901 For myself, with regards to dealing with the cognitive dissonance, of watching technologists I personally know and admire adopt LLMs (some of which are on here, too, and who I am somewhat embarrassed to say have seen my unhinged anti-AI posts
I think this has been much easier for me to deal with, because my personal observation for a long time has been that technologists have a very weak sense of ethics. Both in the sense of having good ethics that I agree with, and in the sense of having thought about the subject of ethics at all. Most technologists have not sat down and decided what their moral boundaries are, and what the relationship of their own morality is to the technology they use or develop. Even very skilled ones that I have learned a lot from. Most people are content to think that technologies are value-neutral, and are content to follow the trend of what everyone else is doing.
I have observed brilliant technologists, long before LLMs, shrug at the ethics of many other things, so for me it is entirely believable that they shrug at the ethics of this, too. I don't think many of these people are inherently morally bad, but I do think that they just don't care. This is bad because I do think that people just following the trend into widespread AI adoption is an ethically bad outcome. However, I also think that as AI backlash increases, if the pendulum swings back to anti-AI being the norm in software: they will follow as well.
It is also the sad truth that for minority women in many computer fields, we must work with brilliant peers who are not necessarily bad people, but who by way of their privileged position in life will say and do ignorant things. We must see someone saying something hurtful, but not make a fuss about it, because it's not worth the time of having to personally educate that person, to deal with the backlash, or to be labelled as a "confrontational" person. And we must do this as well, for brilliant colleagues and mentors and people we admire, and that we learn a lot from. So in that sense, I am very well practiced at this kind of cognitive dissonance - I do it in order to preserve a career.
I hope this is maybe a little helpful for you, though this is only my personal experience. And if you do take a break, I hope it is a restful and rejuvenating one!
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@gloriouscow @lritter also I recommend # macrophotography (and the various non-english equivalents) though fair warning it has the occasional closeup on insects. my wife introduced me to that one last night
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@gloriouscow @lritter i don't know of any hash tags for those but i'd be astonished if there weren't any
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i can wax sixteen different ways of cynical about it.
I am not really so much concerned with the affect of software quality long-term as much as I am concerned with our eventual irrelevance.
That assumes a generous prediction of the trajectory of AI, of course. I do believe that AGI will be achieved, and I am absolutely convinced we have no plan for it whatsoever.
I think that people can actually use Copilot to review PRs without that being the end of open source itself and all of civilization, but it is a technological truce at best.
there's been a lot of discussion over what our motivations as programmers even are. I feel my sense of personal pride giving way to thoughts about my legacy and my lasting contributions to the world, and start to wonder, if AI could help me accomplish that, ... well, the intellectual opiate starts to smell temptingly sweet.
There is an undeniable jealousy to see the ease at which people can make their ideas real with a few prompts now.
What would probably help more than Claude is if I could stop starting projects I never fucking finish.
But everything I am struggling to make now feels like I am casting irrelevant, trivial detritus into the turbulent sea of an uncertain future.
oh, I gave the world a cycle-accurate 8088 emulator. I should get a goddamn nobel prize.
I miss feeling optimistic about our future, but I couldn't tell you the last time i did.
@gloriouscow > What would probably help more than Claude is if I could stop starting projects I never fucking finish.
Yea, ain't that a f***ing mood. I joined the club, got the T-shirt, etc. Only advice I can give is "be kind to yourself" and "its a marathon, not a sprint. Cut off one hydra head at a time." I'm sure these are generic platitudes, but sometimes... they help more than you'd think.
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@gloriouscow @cr1901 For myself, with regards to dealing with the cognitive dissonance, of watching technologists I personally know and admire adopt LLMs (some of which are on here, too, and who I am somewhat embarrassed to say have seen my unhinged anti-AI posts
I think this has been much easier for me to deal with, because my personal observation for a long time has been that technologists have a very weak sense of ethics. Both in the sense of having good ethics that I agree with, and in the sense of having thought about the subject of ethics at all. Most technologists have not sat down and decided what their moral boundaries are, and what the relationship of their own morality is to the technology they use or develop. Even very skilled ones that I have learned a lot from. Most people are content to think that technologies are value-neutral, and are content to follow the trend of what everyone else is doing.
I have observed brilliant technologists, long before LLMs, shrug at the ethics of many other things, so for me it is entirely believable that they shrug at the ethics of this, too. I don't think many of these people are inherently morally bad, but I do think that they just don't care. This is bad because I do think that people just following the trend into widespread AI adoption is an ethically bad outcome. However, I also think that as AI backlash increases, if the pendulum swings back to anti-AI being the norm in software: they will follow as well.
It is also the sad truth that for minority women in many computer fields, we must work with brilliant peers who are not necessarily bad people, but who by way of their privileged position in life will say and do ignorant things. We must see someone saying something hurtful, but not make a fuss about it, because it's not worth the time of having to personally educate that person, to deal with the backlash, or to be labelled as a "confrontational" person. And we must do this as well, for brilliant colleagues and mentors and people we admire, and that we learn a lot from. So in that sense, I am very well practiced at this kind of cognitive dissonance - I do it in order to preserve a career.
I hope this is maybe a little helpful for you, though this is only my personal experience. And if you do take a break, I hope it is a restful and rejuvenating one!
i mean i know the tech-bro type, and ever since John Carmack revealed some profoundly bad takes I have been careful about putting people on a pedestal just due to technical prowess. people don't typically become my friend just because they are good engineers, i like to become friends with people that make me laugh, who can be real with me, vulnerable, frank, and generous with knowledge and experience.
the kind of qualities that don't typically make me think someone's ethical machinery is broken.
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@gloriouscow @lritter i don't know of any hash tags for those but i'd be astonished if there weren't any
@gloriouscow @lritter also I highly recommend following @ clever_reports@mastodon.art, and also all of the great lakes live bots
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@gloriouscow @lritter also I highly recommend following @ clever_reports@mastodon.art, and also all of the great lakes live bots
# BloomScrolling !
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@johncarlosbaez @aeva @lritter
only one a day?
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@johncarlosbaez @aeva @lritter
only one a day?
@johncarlosbaez @aeva @lritter
i should make a feed of cows every fifteen minutes
