I understand the 60 day clock, and the power of the purse, and the War Power Powers Reolutions, and I understand that Trump's war in Iran is illegal.
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@Teri_Kanefield it's definitely a mess. Worse it's a self inflicted mess.
Trump inflicted.
I think people underestimate Trump.
I think he created a lose-lose situation for Congress and the Democrats.
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Right. And it's easy to see how a political trap was set for the Democrats and Congress.
I have always believed that people underestimate Trump. People like to portray him as an incoherent fool. I don't think so.
@Teri_Kanefield He is def a narcissistic sociopath, extremely dangerous bc he's forever seeking revenge on slights real and imagined.
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@Teri_Kanefield why can’t congress take control of this with some pointed legislation directing tRump? Is it because of other Republicans legislators backing the executive branch? In which case, it’s not really tRump, is it? Is it the entire Republican Party thwarting the legislative branch from acting?
When Congress takes control, it will own the resulting mess.
That is why my argument is that the idea that Congress can end this is wrong.
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@Teri_Kanefield He is def a narcissistic sociopath, extremely dangerous bc he's forever seeking revenge on slights real and imagined.
He is also smarter than people give him credit for. People mock his word salads and underestimate his cunning.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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Trump inflicted.
I think people underestimate Trump.
I think he created a lose-lose situation for Congress and the Democrats.
@Teri_Kanefield I think he initially thought it would be as simple as dropping a few bombs and claiming mission accomplished.
But it certainly didn't go that way. So he pivots to making it someone else's problem.
So yeah, that tracks.
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Iran is empowered and, because a school was hit, has an argument that it is entitled to reparations.
The political situation is lose-lose as well.
If Congress steps in, the war can be framed as "thwarted success." Trump. blames Congress for not letting him finish and “win.”
If Congress ties Trump’s hands, it owns the resulting mess.
If Congress refuses to step in, the war continues and the power of the Executive Branch continues to expand at the expense of the Legislative Branch.
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@Teri_Kanefield So, Congress should step in, even if it means it can be said to own the resulting mess. Regardless of political consequences, we need to stop the bleeding. If Trump's supporters want to argue otherwise, let them explain just how Trump could have possibly finished and won. With what? Nuclear weapons?
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Trump inflicted.
I think people underestimate Trump.
I think he created a lose-lose situation for Congress and the Democrats.
@Teri_Kanefield @Sablebadger
I see that in domestic political terms, yes.
But in foreign policy terms, the Iran war is a massive, avoidable footgun. And that may well be far more consequential. -
He is also smarter than people give him credit for. People mock his word salads and underestimate his cunning.
@Teri_Kanefield @PamelaBarroway @timo21
Very true. The word salad is usually quite deliberate.
Edit: Note that the ridiculous and nonsensical stuff gets quoted everywhere. His objective is to always be everywhere and this is one of the techniques.
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@Teri_Kanefield @Sablebadger
I see that in domestic political terms, yes.
But in foreign policy terms, the Iran war is a massive, avoidable footgun. And that may well be far more consequential.Correct. I agree. The war was a stupid mistake. My point is just that getting out of this isn't so easy.
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Iran is empowered and, because a school was hit, has an argument that it is entitled to reparations.
The political situation is lose-lose as well.
If Congress steps in, the war can be framed as "thwarted success." Trump. blames Congress for not letting him finish and “win.”
If Congress ties Trump’s hands, it owns the resulting mess.
If Congress refuses to step in, the war continues and the power of the Executive Branch continues to expand at the expense of the Legislative Branch.
2/
>Iran is empowered and, because a school was hit, has an argument that it is entitled to reparations.
I agree, but more likely general reparations will take the form of "tolls" for passage of the Straight of Hormuz, yes?
>The political situation is lose-lose as well.
>If Congress steps in, the war can be framed as "thwarted success." Trump. blames Congress for not letting him finish and “win.”
>If Congress ties Trump’s hands, it owns the resulting mess.
>If Congress refuses to step in, the war continues and the power of the Executive Branch continues to expand at the expense of the Legislative Branch.
Not sure I'd call this "lose-lose". The first two items are matters of "perception" only. This would be a major "stand up to #Trump moment", at least for #Dems. The perception of Dems as a party is already way down. It could help IMO.
Second, a more obvious issue is hinted in your third point. We have a #Constitution & #Laws for a reason. While there is some ambiguity, there is actually a Right Way to do things in the US most of the time. Shutting down an illegal #war is the right thing to do. It will save both $$ and lives in the long run. If this is perceived as "losing" then so be it!
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Iran is empowered and, because a school was hit, has an argument that it is entitled to reparations.
The political situation is lose-lose as well.
If Congress steps in, the war can be framed as "thwarted success." Trump. blames Congress for not letting him finish and “win.”
If Congress ties Trump’s hands, it owns the resulting mess.
If Congress refuses to step in, the war continues and the power of the Executive Branch continues to expand at the expense of the Legislative Branch.
2/
@Teri_Kanefield Perhaps he will fire Hegseth and blame it all on him. He doesn't really care what happens to the country or the world as long as bad stuff is not his fault.
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I understand the 60 day clock, and the power of the purse, and the War Power Powers Reolutions, and I understand that Trump's war in Iran is illegal.
However I think the whole "Congress can end this mess" argument is incorrect and simplistic.
To begin with, I don't see any way to "win" at this point.
1/
(I'm saying this softly and with some trepidation.) I think at this point we maybe have to not think about winning and instead try to collectively (those of us who can, I mean) find a moral center and move from there. I personally try to use human rights as my center.
In this case, it seems to me that congress needs to assert their power to move us back towards the ideal of balance of power, so that's the thing that should be done.
But we're so far past when we all should have screamed STOP. I do think at least part of it is that we all accepted the framework of politics as a horse race. In that framework, winning is the only thing. After you win, then you govern. But that takes power away from the people, and we, imo should have agency at every step of the process. (We have been denied that.)
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Iran is empowered and, because a school was hit, has an argument that it is entitled to reparations.
The political situation is lose-lose as well.
If Congress steps in, the war can be framed as "thwarted success." Trump. blames Congress for not letting him finish and “win.”
If Congress ties Trump’s hands, it owns the resulting mess.
If Congress refuses to step in, the war continues and the power of the Executive Branch continues to expand at the expense of the Legislative Branch.
2/
The only way to end this is to genuinely negotiate with Iran to get to an endpoint that doesn't threaten the people in power.
And that means Netanyahu et al. will also need to make serious concessions re Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, Syria.
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening given the current reality in the US, especially the unwillingness of many Ds to recognize the issues re respecting Palestinian rights.
And even so, this will not be an easy negotiation.
