New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot
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@kimcrawley Ok, I think we just have a problem of definition here. I'm just talking about the coding method, the small neural networks home made for Character Recognition for scanner, built on a limited dataset of scans (with autorisation); or a filter that auto clean line-art, like on this paper https://www.davidrevoy.com/article642/scientific-paper-sketch-to-line-art-by-waseda-university I participated in 2018. Yes, things that existed before 2022.
I think we agree on all gen AI from surveillance capitalism by corpo. No need to jump on the big words or insults.
@kimcrawley Also, I concede my wording on my FAQ (that's probably was written around 2022/2023) could be better and more precise. I'll note on my TODO to try to disambiguate this as much as possible.
Edit: updated with an 'addendum': https://www.davidrevoy.com/static2/about-me
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@mangeurdenuage Cette présentation n'apporte rien de concret dans les usages pratique: juste un objet théorique avec des critères pas mis en application... la FSF quoi.
J'invoque avec ce genre de règle catégorique et simple une protection contre des usages déjà là. Ca donne au projet un motif de ban ou d'avertissement pour bannir les MR d'un agent Claude/Copilot/Mistral/Llama à vue, ou gronder un bleu qui penserait qu'on pourrait vibe-coder un truc pour le site et le soumettre.
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@mangeurdenuage Cette présentation n'apporte rien de concret dans les usages pratique: juste un objet théorique avec des critères pas mis en application... la FSF quoi.
J'invoque avec ce genre de règle catégorique et simple une protection contre des usages déjà là. Ca donne au projet un motif de ban ou d'avertissement pour bannir les MR d'un agent Claude/Copilot/Mistral/Llama à vue, ou gronder un bleu qui penserait qu'on pourrait vibe-coder un truc pour le site et le soumettre.
(1/2)@mangeurdenuage Ensuite, si vient un jour l'objet théorique de la FSF, genre le truc génial, fiable, pas privateur, etc... et que c'est utilisé dans tout les FLOSS, hè bien on verra peut-être à bâtir des exceptions... Mais on en reparle dans 10 ans à mon avis
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy
I love Pepper & Carrot* and also your Avian Intellegence series.[* Though I've not read much of it]
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@davidrevoy ça me fait trop penser à Kaonashi dans Spirited away. Ce personnage est d'ailleurs une belle image des LLM actuels, qui bouffent tout et tout le monde mais fascinent tant.
@aloxe Oui, une grosse grosse inspiration, un mix entre ça et le sans visage.
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@kimcrawley Ok, I think we just have a problem of definition here. I'm just talking about the coding method, the small neural networks home made for Character Recognition for scanner, built on a limited dataset of scans (with autorisation); or a filter that auto clean line-art, like on this paper https://www.davidrevoy.com/article642/scientific-paper-sketch-to-line-art-by-waseda-university I participated in 2018. Yes, things that existed before 2022.
I think we agree on all gen AI from surveillance capitalism by corpo. No need to jump on the big words or insults.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley The question to ask is who are you trying to appeal to when you say you're "not against all AI"?
Are you worried someone reading post-2023 is going to somehow think you're referring to some predictive algorithm in use in hospitals 2016?
Anyone with even a vague knowledge of AI is going to know you're not, anyone that doesn't isn't going to even know to think that as "AI" to them means the shit we're all disparaging!
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley The question to ask is who are you trying to appeal to when you say you're "not against all AI"?
Are you worried someone reading post-2023 is going to somehow think you're referring to some predictive algorithm in use in hospitals 2016?
Anyone with even a vague knowledge of AI is going to know you're not, anyone that doesn't isn't going to even know to think that as "AI" to them means the shit we're all disparaging!
@kwazekwaze @kimcrawley ? I'm not trying to appeal others with my ideas on the topic, I just say what I think and do, unfiltred. I'm an independent artist with a comic project, not a doing PR strategy.
Also, FIY, in Free Libre and Open Source gfx, we have a library part of GMIC like nn_lib ( see 5.2 in https://gmic.eu/gmic325/ ), that is "neural network learning". It use small, ethical dataset. It's for making better filters, it runs local, etc... The nuance is for that type of projects.
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy I think you should like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsQtUSTSX40
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@davidrevoy I think you should like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsQtUSTSX40
@Stem
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@mangeurdenuage T'inquiète, pas de mal, et de toute façon, j'ai un peu/beaucoup d’amertume avec la FSF. Mon avis sur ce qu'il font maintenant ne vaux pas grand choses car je tourne vite fait sois à la moquerie, soit à d'autre stratégie d'évitement. Mea Culpa.
En tout cas, c'est chouette de voir Zoë Kooyman, ce fût de loin celle que j'ai le plus apprécié travaillé avec l'hors de notre collab.
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy Armus?
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley The question to ask is who are you trying to appeal to when you say you're "not against all AI"?
Are you worried someone reading post-2023 is going to somehow think you're referring to some predictive algorithm in use in hospitals 2016?
Anyone with even a vague knowledge of AI is going to know you're not, anyone that doesn't isn't going to even know to think that as "AI" to them means the shit we're all disparaging!
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@kwazekwaze @kimcrawley ? I'm not trying to appeal others with my ideas on the topic, I just say what I think and do, unfiltred. I'm an independent artist with a comic project, not a doing PR strategy.
Also, FIY, in Free Libre and Open Source gfx, we have a library part of GMIC like nn_lib ( see 5.2 in https://gmic.eu/gmic325/ ), that is "neural network learning". It use small, ethical dataset. It's for making better filters, it runs local, etc... The nuance is for that type of projects.
You're trying to appeal to centrism fallacy. "I'm not one of those radicals who is totally against bad thing, I am partly supportive of bad thing, to be rational and sensible!
The planet can have a little destruction, as a treat!
I don't like to get all *political*. So when bad thing is destroying the world, instead of being on the right side of history and firmly opposing bad thing, I'm gonna not get involved and just let bad thing hurt people 'cuz it's just politics, you know?
Don't confuse me for someone with principles and a strong moral code!"
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You're trying to appeal to centrism fallacy. "I'm not one of those radicals who is totally against bad thing, I am partly supportive of bad thing, to be rational and sensible!
The planet can have a little destruction, as a treat!
I don't like to get all *political*. So when bad thing is destroying the world, instead of being on the right side of history and firmly opposing bad thing, I'm gonna not get involved and just let bad thing hurt people 'cuz it's just politics, you know?
Don't confuse me for someone with principles and a strong moral code!"
@kimcrawley @kwazekwaze Oh, a Straw man. Ok, discussion is over.
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@kimcrawley @kwazekwaze Oh, a Straw man. Ok, discussion is over.
I see no "straw men" here, only a coward who refuses to take a strong moral stance. The planet destroying torment nexus and the technofascists who love it aren't going to give you a cookie as you watch the planet burn and shrug about how you don't care.
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David, I thought you were really cool. But it turns out you're not really against Gen AI after all.
@kimcrawley @davidrevoy Ethical AI is a thing. (See, for example, Neuro-sama)
Clearly what we're against is AI slop and blatant plagiarizing of artists' works. (Not to mention massive data centers poisoning the land, but that's a different topic)
So far nothing good has come from AI provided by megacorps like OpenAI. See also: Capitalism.
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@kimcrawley @davidrevoy Ethical AI is a thing. (See, for example, Neuro-sama)
Clearly what we're against is AI slop and blatant plagiarizing of artists' works. (Not to mention massive data centers poisoning the land, but that's a different topic)
So far nothing good has come from AI provided by megacorps like OpenAI. See also: Capitalism.
There is no non-evil Gen AI.
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@kwazekwaze @kimcrawley ? I'm not trying to appeal others with my ideas on the topic, I just say what I think and do, unfiltred. I'm an independent artist with a comic project, not a doing PR strategy.
Also, FIY, in Free Libre and Open Source gfx, we have a library part of GMIC like nn_lib ( see 5.2 in https://gmic.eu/gmic325/ ), that is "neural network learning". It use small, ethical dataset. It's for making better filters, it runs local, etc... The nuance is for that type of projects.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley Yeah man, I know. The "well-meaning individuals" part was referring to you! I ain't accusing you of malignance.
Try this: Imagine a world where half the critical articles about bitcoin had the author ending with "now don't get me wrong I'm not actually opposed to all crypto. SHA-256 and SSH are actually super useful technologies".
A little weird, right?
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