New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy I like the approach of addressing it in the CoC, since the problem is fundamentally a human behavioral problem of misrepresentation, deception, time-wasting, etc.
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@davidrevoy I like the approach of addressing it in the CoC, since the problem is fundamentally a human behavioral problem of misrepresentation, deception, time-wasting, etc.
@dalias @davidrevoy it is also mostly ethical and social, rather than technical
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrotThe cat’s face is purrfect
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy Good text, good illustration. Keep up the good fight!
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy that's not what an angry ready-to-attack cat looks like at all, but I like the concept.
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy "Rage Against the Slop Machines"
Nice!
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David, I thought you were really cool. But it turns out you're not really against Gen AI after all.
@kimcrawley It starts by a clear "no" , right? It also says i disapprove it, but it has a nuance for the computer science and FLOSS projects who use the technics (not with any proprietary AI of course, crawled on data without consent), with just their in-house models trained on small in house ethical datasets, for statistic, scientific research or image algorythm (eg. Filters, Sharpenîng, img search local). Sorry for not being in absolute purity and have a nuance. I' m like that on many topics.
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@kimcrawley It starts by a clear "no" , right? It also says i disapprove it, but it has a nuance for the computer science and FLOSS projects who use the technics (not with any proprietary AI of course, crawled on data without consent), with just their in-house models trained on small in house ethical datasets, for statistic, scientific research or image algorythm (eg. Filters, Sharpenîng, img search local). Sorry for not being in absolute purity and have a nuance. I' m like that on many topics.
Having an actual nuanced thought on a topic? How dare you.
People are the problem, as with any tool. I can't believe we live in a world where obviously bad people get to do obviously bad things with no repercussions, but here we are.
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy I'm very frustrated and concerned about AI – not because it will "take over the world" or some conspiracy like that, but because it's going down the same path as blockchain and other technologies regarding cryptocurrency, tokens, etc.
It's a good and interesting technology, but the problem is that it's used as a marketing term and for all kinds of "bullsh*" which ruins the reputation of the technology as a whole and burns everyone in the process.
(The Em dash is not there because I used AI, but because I'm trying uncommon and almost "dead" but useful text elements like the semi-cologne ; for example, while keeping things language accurate)
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@kimcrawley It starts by a clear "no" , right? It also says i disapprove it, but it has a nuance for the computer science and FLOSS projects who use the technics (not with any proprietary AI of course, crawled on data without consent), with just their in-house models trained on small in house ethical datasets, for statistic, scientific research or image algorythm (eg. Filters, Sharpenîng, img search local). Sorry for not being in absolute purity and have a nuance. I' m like that on many topics.
There's absolutely no such thing as ethical Gen AI. I'm not talking about types of machine learning that existed before 2022. That's not Gen AI. I'm talking about *generative* "AI."
And there's no such thing as "ethical" Gen AI, nor "it'll get better in the future!" Even your "what if it's just local, on device!" is a bullshit excuse.
Gen AI is inherently fascist.
Gen AI is inherently brainwashing and mindwarping.
The massive environmental destruction and training off off massive amounts of people's creations without permission isn't the only problem with Gen AI.
And I'm sick and fucking tired of people's obsession with finding "nuance" in inherently evil shit. Take a strong stance against evil, or be a coward.
If only you had the moral courage of Anthony Moser, rather than the cowardice of a tech bro.
Greg Egan (@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz)
“AI-powered writing tools are increasingly integrated into our e-mails and phones. Now a new study finds biased AI suggestions can sway users’ beliefs” “We told people before, and after, to be careful, that the AI is going to be (or was) biased, and nothing helped,” Naaman said. “Their attitudes about the issues still shifted.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-autocomplete-doesnt-just-change-how-you-write-it-changes-how-you-think/
Mathstodon (mathstodon.xyz)
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There's absolutely no such thing as ethical Gen AI. I'm not talking about types of machine learning that existed before 2022. That's not Gen AI. I'm talking about *generative* "AI."
And there's no such thing as "ethical" Gen AI, nor "it'll get better in the future!" Even your "what if it's just local, on device!" is a bullshit excuse.
Gen AI is inherently fascist.
Gen AI is inherently brainwashing and mindwarping.
The massive environmental destruction and training off off massive amounts of people's creations without permission isn't the only problem with Gen AI.
And I'm sick and fucking tired of people's obsession with finding "nuance" in inherently evil shit. Take a strong stance against evil, or be a coward.
If only you had the moral courage of Anthony Moser, rather than the cowardice of a tech bro.
Greg Egan (@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz)
“AI-powered writing tools are increasingly integrated into our e-mails and phones. Now a new study finds biased AI suggestions can sway users’ beliefs” “We told people before, and after, to be careful, that the AI is going to be (or was) biased, and nothing helped,” Naaman said. “Their attitudes about the issues still shifted.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-autocomplete-doesnt-just-change-how-you-write-it-changes-how-you-think/
Mathstodon (mathstodon.xyz)
@kimcrawley Ok, I think we just have a problem of definition here. I'm just talking about the coding method, the small neural networks home made for Character Recognition for scanner, built on a limited dataset of scans (with autorisation); or a filter that auto clean line-art, like on this paper https://www.davidrevoy.com/article642/scientific-paper-sketch-to-line-art-by-waseda-university I participated in 2018. Yes, things that existed before 2022.
I think we agree on all gen AI from surveillance capitalism by corpo. No need to jump on the big words or insults.
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@kimcrawley Ok, I think we just have a problem of definition here. I'm just talking about the coding method, the small neural networks home made for Character Recognition for scanner, built on a limited dataset of scans (with autorisation); or a filter that auto clean line-art, like on this paper https://www.davidrevoy.com/article642/scientific-paper-sketch-to-line-art-by-waseda-university I participated in 2018. Yes, things that existed before 2022.
I think we agree on all gen AI from surveillance capitalism by corpo. No need to jump on the big words or insults.
@kimcrawley Also, I concede my wording on my FAQ (that's probably was written around 2022/2023) could be better and more precise. I'll note on my TODO to try to disambiguate this as much as possible.
Edit: updated with an 'addendum': https://www.davidrevoy.com/static2/about-me
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@mangeurdenuage Cette présentation n'apporte rien de concret dans les usages pratique: juste un objet théorique avec des critères pas mis en application... la FSF quoi.
J'invoque avec ce genre de règle catégorique et simple une protection contre des usages déjà là. Ca donne au projet un motif de ban ou d'avertissement pour bannir les MR d'un agent Claude/Copilot/Mistral/Llama à vue, ou gronder un bleu qui penserait qu'on pourrait vibe-coder un truc pour le site et le soumettre.
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@mangeurdenuage Cette présentation n'apporte rien de concret dans les usages pratique: juste un objet théorique avec des critères pas mis en application... la FSF quoi.
J'invoque avec ce genre de règle catégorique et simple une protection contre des usages déjà là. Ca donne au projet un motif de ban ou d'avertissement pour bannir les MR d'un agent Claude/Copilot/Mistral/Llama à vue, ou gronder un bleu qui penserait qu'on pourrait vibe-coder un truc pour le site et le soumettre.
(1/2)@mangeurdenuage Ensuite, si vient un jour l'objet théorique de la FSF, genre le truc génial, fiable, pas privateur, etc... et que c'est utilisé dans tout les FLOSS, hè bien on verra peut-être à bâtir des exceptions... Mais on en reparle dans 10 ans à mon avis
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New blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot@davidrevoy
I love Pepper & Carrot* and also your Avian Intellegence series.[* Though I've not read much of it]
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@davidrevoy ça me fait trop penser à Kaonashi dans Spirited away. Ce personnage est d'ailleurs une belle image des LLM actuels, qui bouffent tout et tout le monde mais fascinent tant.
@aloxe Oui, une grosse grosse inspiration, un mix entre ça et le sans visage.
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@kimcrawley Ok, I think we just have a problem of definition here. I'm just talking about the coding method, the small neural networks home made for Character Recognition for scanner, built on a limited dataset of scans (with autorisation); or a filter that auto clean line-art, like on this paper https://www.davidrevoy.com/article642/scientific-paper-sketch-to-line-art-by-waseda-university I participated in 2018. Yes, things that existed before 2022.
I think we agree on all gen AI from surveillance capitalism by corpo. No need to jump on the big words or insults.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley The question to ask is who are you trying to appeal to when you say you're "not against all AI"?
Are you worried someone reading post-2023 is going to somehow think you're referring to some predictive algorithm in use in hospitals 2016?
Anyone with even a vague knowledge of AI is going to know you're not, anyone that doesn't isn't going to even know to think that as "AI" to them means the shit we're all disparaging!
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@davidrevoy @kimcrawley The question to ask is who are you trying to appeal to when you say you're "not against all AI"?
Are you worried someone reading post-2023 is going to somehow think you're referring to some predictive algorithm in use in hospitals 2016?
Anyone with even a vague knowledge of AI is going to know you're not, anyone that doesn't isn't going to even know to think that as "AI" to them means the shit we're all disparaging!
@kwazekwaze @kimcrawley ? I'm not trying to appeal others with my ideas on the topic, I just say what I think and do, unfiltred. I'm an independent artist with a comic project, not a doing PR strategy.
Also, FIY, in Free Libre and Open Source gfx, we have a library part of GMIC like nn_lib ( see 5.2 in https://gmic.eu/gmic325/ ), that is "neural network learning". It use small, ethical dataset. It's for making better filters, it runs local, etc... The nuance is for that type of projects.
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