The problem those arguing for a 'revival' of Centerism have (this morning Phillip Collins/Observer) is that they draw centrism wide enough to draw in Blairs' Labour & Cameron's Tories.
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@Colman @ChrisMayLA6 you’re right I think and that’s because the top echelons have too much private stuff to protect - status, power, money - and couldn’t possibly understand the Greens or any other socialist/left grouping who see through the ‘centre left’ pretence
@JeniParsons @ChrisMayLA6 maybe a bit, but mostly because they’re bought into the Thatcherite cargo cult that believes her story about what she did. In reality she threw the benefits of EC membership and north seas oil to private business and allowed them to use it to buy up everything that had been built up post-war.
Starmer and company are Very Serious and know that saying any of that is Very Unserious and only Very Serious people are worth listening to,
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@Colman @ChrisMayLA6 you’re right I think and that’s because the top echelons have too much private stuff to protect - status, power, money - and couldn’t possibly understand the Greens or any other socialist/left grouping who see through the ‘centre left’ pretence
@JeniParsons @Colman @ChrisMayLA6 Money, yes. But also preserving power and control. They always think they’ll end up on top, and don’t really care how many others have to fail and fall.
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The problem those arguing for a 'revival' of Centerism have (this morning Phillip Collins/Observer) is that they draw centrism wide enough to draw in Blairs' Labour & Cameron's Tories.
If that's the liberal centre then its been in power for decades & got us to the stagnating, unequal, failing juncture we have reached.... why would anyone think they now have the answers (other than their feeling of entitlement to govern?) as the are worried less by Reform than the Greens?
I was struck by this:
"In the 1950s about 70% of manual workers voted Labour and the same percentage of non-manual workers voted Conservative. Today, education and age both predict voting affiliation better than class."
It is an example, I think, of the myopia of centrist or 'liberal' thinking. It misses the point that the current association of education and age with political affiliation comes out of the expansion of higher education in the 60s and 70s, then the generational inequality perpetrated by the single-generation handout of neoliberal privatisation, that has produced a society in the UK (and to some extent elsewhere) in which lots of well-educated young people don't have any assets to fall back on - which is really what being working class means - rather than having a regional accent or liking chips, as 'liberals' would have it - and lots of older people living longer that are less well educated but have both assets and relatively generous pensions.
What is 'social class' supposed to mean if not the difference between having no choice but to keep working all hours for somebody else, or conversely receiving unearned asset income ?
But naturally 'centrists', 'liberals', whatever you call them, must never see this, because if they did they would have to admit the economic interests (in preserving the status-quo) that really lie behind their own supposedly a-historical 'ideas' and 'values'.
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@JeniParsons @Colman @ChrisMayLA6 Money, yes. But also preserving power and control. They always think they’ll end up on top, and don’t really care how many others have to fail and fall.
@BashStKid @JeniParsons @ChrisMayLA6 the only principle Starmer seems to have is a will to be in power.
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The problem those arguing for a 'revival' of Centerism have (this morning Phillip Collins/Observer) is that they draw centrism wide enough to draw in Blairs' Labour & Cameron's Tories.
If that's the liberal centre then its been in power for decades & got us to the stagnating, unequal, failing juncture we have reached.... why would anyone think they now have the answers (other than their feeling of entitlement to govern?) as the are worried less by Reform than the Greens?
@ChrisMayLA6 Yes, the fascists do not worry the centrist. Mainly because centrists are calm and polite fascists.
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I was struck by this:
"In the 1950s about 70% of manual workers voted Labour and the same percentage of non-manual workers voted Conservative. Today, education and age both predict voting affiliation better than class."
It is an example, I think, of the myopia of centrist or 'liberal' thinking. It misses the point that the current association of education and age with political affiliation comes out of the expansion of higher education in the 60s and 70s, then the generational inequality perpetrated by the single-generation handout of neoliberal privatisation, that has produced a society in the UK (and to some extent elsewhere) in which lots of well-educated young people don't have any assets to fall back on - which is really what being working class means - rather than having a regional accent or liking chips, as 'liberals' would have it - and lots of older people living longer that are less well educated but have both assets and relatively generous pensions.
What is 'social class' supposed to mean if not the difference between having no choice but to keep working all hours for somebody else, or conversely receiving unearned asset income ?
But naturally 'centrists', 'liberals', whatever you call them, must never see this, because if they did they would have to admit the economic interests (in preserving the status-quo) that really lie behind their own supposedly a-historical 'ideas' and 'values'.
Yes, a really good point... and as you say what centrists are (wilfully) blind to
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Yes, a really good point... and as you say what centrists are (wilfully) blind to
I disagree
(Not with the assessment of how we got here, but with laying the blindness on "liberals)
Every liberal who calls for a #WealthTax (a lot of them) understand the dynamic you mentioned.
Now, "centrists" - yeah they are probably turning a blind eye.
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Yup, me too...
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I was struck by this:
"In the 1950s about 70% of manual workers voted Labour and the same percentage of non-manual workers voted Conservative. Today, education and age both predict voting affiliation better than class."
It is an example, I think, of the myopia of centrist or 'liberal' thinking. It misses the point that the current association of education and age with political affiliation comes out of the expansion of higher education in the 60s and 70s, then the generational inequality perpetrated by the single-generation handout of neoliberal privatisation, that has produced a society in the UK (and to some extent elsewhere) in which lots of well-educated young people don't have any assets to fall back on - which is really what being working class means - rather than having a regional accent or liking chips, as 'liberals' would have it - and lots of older people living longer that are less well educated but have both assets and relatively generous pensions.
What is 'social class' supposed to mean if not the difference between having no choice but to keep working all hours for somebody else, or conversely receiving unearned asset income ?
But naturally 'centrists', 'liberals', whatever you call them, must never see this, because if they did they would have to admit the economic interests (in preserving the status-quo) that really lie behind their own supposedly a-historical 'ideas' and 'values'.
@GeofCox @ChrisMayLA6 Or, to paraphase: centrist ideology is inherently right-wing/conservative, they just fooled themselves into thinking they're representative of the workers.
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I disagree
(Not with the assessment of how we got here, but with laying the blindness on "liberals)
Every liberal who calls for a #WealthTax (a lot of them) understand the dynamic you mentioned.
Now, "centrists" - yeah they are probably turning a blind eye.
@TCatInReality @ChrisMayLA6 @GeofCox Every liberal who calls for a wealth tax is ignoring the preponderance of evidence that they are largely ineffective in reducing inequality and raise little revenue. What is needed is higher taxes on unearned income and lower taxes on income derived from working
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Yes, a really good point... and as you say what centrists are (wilfully) blind to
@ChrisMayLA6 @GeofCox where is that talk about how Boomers spent their children money.... I have it somewhere
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