#Proton #AI #LLM #AISlop After sending an inquiry to Proton support, I have been informed that "in order to remain efficient" they are trying "pilot programs" using LLMs to assist in coding their products.
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@ozeng @Retreival9096 @kevpeirce
Their answer to your query was pretty vague. A chatbot is one thing - you don't have to use it. Using a tool to look for code bugs or check for missing documentation would be okay too. Integrating AI-written code into the software is quite another matter.
@Anne_Delong @ozeng @kevpeirce
True. I assumed since my question regarded their code base, their response did too ... but that may not be true.
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@Retreival9096 @sharpcheddargoblin there must be some better options. just need the energy & will to find out.
@kathimmel @Retreival9096 I have a Tuta account as well, at the time their spam management was not very good but I guess they've improved lately. Maybe they're worth switching to?
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My communication style is poor. This is a new message I started, because a lot of people rely on Proton for a variety of identity protection products: VPN, secure email & calendar, etc.
And, in my opinion, their decision to use AI for coding makes their products more buggy and thus less secure.
As others have pointed out, there are other reasons not to trust Proton, including their CEO's politics.
@Retreival9096
No problem, just seems like I'm missing some news or announcements from Proton that triggered this inquiry of yours -
@Retreival9096
No problem, just seems like I'm missing some news or announcements from Proton that triggered this inquiry of yoursNo, I'm just evaluating the security of various providers I have.
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@Anne_Delong @ozeng @kevpeirce
True. I assumed since my question regarded their code base, their response did too ... but that may not be true.
@Retreival9096 @ozeng @kevpeirce
It sounds as though they didn't like to say, or hadn't really decided. Email software should be pretty cut and dried by now. I hope they don't mess it up.
I have a web site, so domain name and a mail server was part of the hosting package, but I have family members who use Proton mail and like it.
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@kathimmel @Retreival9096 I have a Tuta account as well, at the time their spam management was not very good but I guess they've improved lately. Maybe they're worth switching to?
@sharpcheddargoblin @kathimmel @Retreival9096 I’ve been using Tuta for several months now and I’m quite satisfied. The spam filter is not perfect but it’s improving.
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#Proton #AI #LLM #AISlop
After sending an inquiry to Proton support, I have been informed that "in order to remain efficient" they are trying "pilot programs" using LLMs to assist in coding their products.You might want to contact Andy Yen if this choice of his affects your confidence in Proton products.
I don't often ask for boosts, but I would like this to be as visible as it can.
[Edit: Add link to message with text of my question, and their response:
https://hachyderm.io/deck/@Retreival9096/116506589735214968
]@Retreival9096 Proton's most important piece of their architecture is the encryption, and what they're using isn't vibe-coded -
They specifically delayed the response to get something more official than just the particular support person's opinion.
@Retreival9096 Thank you kindly for your time to share that
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@Retreival9096 I think you'll find that all actual software developers who have tried using LLMs as aid the last ~6 months agree that they are quite useful.
The people who claim differently are either 1) not actual developers or 2) haven't checked if their gut feelings agree with reality.
That said, I would most definitely not have an LLM write me a cryptographic library, but I'm also very certain Proton aren't either.
@troed @Retreival9096
I was told many LLMs tend to write new code instead of seeking for and using existing libraries. That results in a lot of duplicate code and bugs not vanishing by updating central libraries. Was that a problem or is it still? -
@Retreival9096 mixing cryptography and LLMs sounds like a bad idea, damn. Even if you keep it to stuff that doesn't cross the boundary, it can still push a lot against it I bet
... Though I remember Proton overall being a bit murky as a company, in terms of political stance by CEO, and such? Not entirely sure but yeah.
Regarding the "murky" political stance you might find the following article of interest https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
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lol. another anti-AI fanatic who is completely unable to handle their cognitive dissonance and just go direct to blocking.
Hey... add me to your blocklist. Do all AI bros lack the ability to experience self-awareness?
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#Proton #AI #LLM #AISlop
After sending an inquiry to Proton support, I have been informed that "in order to remain efficient" they are trying "pilot programs" using LLMs to assist in coding their products.You might want to contact Andy Yen if this choice of his affects your confidence in Proton products.
I don't often ask for boosts, but I would like this to be as visible as it can.
[Edit: Add link to message with text of my question, and their response:
https://hachyderm.io/deck/@Retreival9096/116506589735214968
]@Retreival9096
LOL- I ran into the chatbot a month or so ago: an endless cycle of requests for clarifications which I humoured for a few days, then became bored and ignored. I like most of the proton products well enough, but no way Im going to ever bother support again. If it breaks, it's broke. Simple -
@dallo @Tutanota @Retreival9096 @sharpcheddargoblin thanks. i've seen others recommend them, but haven't done much of my own research yet. i'd kind of like calendar & drive options in addition to email.
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@mathew @Retreival9096 you should assume the servers are already compromised. Do you trust the encryption or not? If their servers never have access to your private key, what attack vectors are you so concerned about?
https://proton.me/learn/encryption/types-of-encryption/zero-access -
Regarding the "murky" political stance you might find the following article of interest https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
@happy @saphire @Retreival9096 FWIW, there was more to the story than that blog included. Proton also provides their services to explicitly fascist individuals and orgs. Andy Yen stated several times that the policy of Proton is to be totally neutral “like Switzerland”; which sounds nobly professional until we remember that neutrality is why the Nazis put all the wealth they stole into Swiss banks. Neutrality may be a form of liberalism, but that usage of “liberal” does not mean “opposed to Trump/fascism”.
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@mathew @Retreival9096 so maybe their client will get worse. Apple does that every year and they don't even need AI to do it
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@troed @Retreival9096
I was told many LLMs tend to write new code instead of seeking for and using existing libraries. That results in a lot of duplicate code and bugs not vanishing by updating central libraries. Was that a problem or is it still?This is the difference between "vibe coding" and using them as development aids. If you just tell them to build the finished product the code that you get might work but be absolutely horribly architectured. If you yourself know how to do proper software development you can steer them to produce good results - precisely because you tell them to refactor duplicated code or use specific libraries etc.
Another way of phrasing it is that they're really good at getting to 80% without help but unless you spend some time on the details the final 20% might be quite painful.
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Regarding the "murky" political stance you might find the following article of interest https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
@happy @Retreival9096 My two cents is that it was not just one single article but overall trends too, response to that, etc
Personally I've been rather uneasy with overzealous feeling usage of "Big Tech", especially as afaik that particular phrase was mostly used among conservative people for a while until it suddenly became mainstream, and they did use it before that it feels. Though don't have any citation, statistics, or articles chewing out things line by line whenever something can be interpreted in different way
Overall I'm.. skeptical of the service Proton provides and feel it slightly pushes out focus on more open and people controlled alternative solutions
... Key management is hard though, and most alternatives kinda suck at it. Or at UX. Or ability to install it without an equivalent of a degree. Or use it without an equivalent of a degree
It does have its use, I can't deny that, but people should be aware more of what it does rather than what they think it does (thanks to marketing)
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This is the difference between "vibe coding" and using them as development aids. If you just tell them to build the finished product the code that you get might work but be absolutely horribly architectured. If you yourself know how to do proper software development you can steer them to produce good results - precisely because you tell them to refactor duplicated code or use specific libraries etc.
Another way of phrasing it is that they're really good at getting to 80% without help but unless you spend some time on the details the final 20% might be quite painful.
@troed @Retreival9096 my main use of LLM is to tell me what libraries are out there I could use. "Don't write code, tell me what library or tool exists and give me some URLs"
