Interesting read.
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RE: https://framapiaf.org/@newsycombinator/116202173100706221
Interesting read. At first my response was "What? WHY?? No!"
But then I remembered: this is exactly why we cherish #FreeSoftware! So fly your freak flag, my friend!
@jameshowell Is this so weird? I thought real package management was a relatively recent feature of emacs. External modules were always possible but I get the impression they were far less common for a long time.
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@jameshowell This is amazing. I am absolutely not clever enough to do the same, but that's what I'd like to have.
What are the gifts of #Emacs? What does she provide that is precious to us? @chesheer
First gift: the Four Freedoms. I have learned a little, over lo, these 37 years, but (as @joeress might say) "I'm too thick." I cannot replace most of my packages, much less write a featureful version control like #Magit!
Second gift: the Community! Let the world know that I still trust @tarsius with my life. Here I again publicly thank him for Magit. I could give up this package or that package, but I WILL FIGHT to support @publicvoit @daviwil @sacha @rougier @howard @bbatsov @xenodium @danderzei @oantolin @minad @tusharhero @kickingvegas @divyaranjan @sanityinc @ramin_hal9001 @andros @yantar92 @bzg @mousebot @ericsfraga @amake @mms @pixelate @susam (sorry if I forgot you)
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@jameshowell Is this so weird? I thought real package management was a relatively recent feature of emacs. External modules were always possible but I get the impression they were far less common for a long time.
@benjamineskola AT FIRST, I thought, but all these great packages exist! Why make yourself write them again?
AND THEN, I thought, but you could write them again! Why not let yourself write them again?
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@jameshowell Why should it be so absurd? There are plenty of people who just use Emacs as-is, though usually they don't go this far to reimplement stuff (I'd argue the next step is recognizing that you can get very far without having to write so much Elisp by better leveraging external utilities).
@pkal See my sibling reply. After I retire, maybe I will re-write everything for fun.
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@jameshowell i come at it from the completely other end: i love the social aspect of sharing packages (which to me is what free software is ultimately about), and seeing what other people have created. installing a frankenstein of different packages is beautiful. i want to be able to code stuff to share back, not to become the IDE equivalent of a lone-wolf/prepper.
but up the freak flags for sure!
Edit: the cat is defs no prepper, and they thank a huge list of people at the end that they interacted with and learned from. sharing in another sense.
@mousebot Agreed. And thanks for mastodon.el!
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What are the gifts of #Emacs? What does she provide that is precious to us? @chesheer
First gift: the Four Freedoms. I have learned a little, over lo, these 37 years, but (as @joeress might say) "I'm too thick." I cannot replace most of my packages, much less write a featureful version control like #Magit!
Second gift: the Community! Let the world know that I still trust @tarsius with my life. Here I again publicly thank him for Magit. I could give up this package or that package, but I WILL FIGHT to support @publicvoit @daviwil @sacha @rougier @howard @bbatsov @xenodium @danderzei @oantolin @minad @tusharhero @kickingvegas @divyaranjan @sanityinc @ramin_hal9001 @andros @yantar92 @bzg @mousebot @ericsfraga @amake @mms @pixelate @susam (sorry if I forgot you)
@jameshowell @chesheer @joeress @tarsius @publicvoit @daviwil @sacha @rougier @howard @bbatsov @xenodium @danderzei @oantolin @minad @tusharhero @kickingvegas @divyaranjan @sanityinc @ramin_hal9001 @andros @yantar92 @bzg @mousebot @ericsfraga @amake @mms @pixelate @susam
Emacs is the second thing I install on my development boxes, right after gcc and binutils. Indispensable.
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P pixelate@tweesecake.social shared this topic
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RE: https://framapiaf.org/@newsycombinator/116202173100706221
Interesting read. At first my response was "What? WHY?? No!"
But then I remembered: this is exactly why we cherish #FreeSoftware! So fly your freak flag, my friend!
@jameshowell this was a great read. I'll have to read through the actual config as well.
There's a certain allure to it
The dream is to one day have a computer with enough documentation and openness that it's possible to do essentially this at the operating system level. One day I'd love to understand the machine I use well enough to be able to modify any part of its source and add new drivers to it where necessary. Not for any practical reasons, it'd just feel nice for my personal computing device to be personal
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@pkal See my sibling reply. After I retire, maybe I will re-write everything for fun.
@jameshowell I think rewriting to simplify packages to their essence, while demonstrating how they work, is a worthwhile didactical project I myself have thought about approaching for a few popular packages (avy, dumb-jump, transient, ...).
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What are the gifts of #Emacs? What does she provide that is precious to us? @chesheer
First gift: the Four Freedoms. I have learned a little, over lo, these 37 years, but (as @joeress might say) "I'm too thick." I cannot replace most of my packages, much less write a featureful version control like #Magit!
Second gift: the Community! Let the world know that I still trust @tarsius with my life. Here I again publicly thank him for Magit. I could give up this package or that package, but I WILL FIGHT to support @publicvoit @daviwil @sacha @rougier @howard @bbatsov @xenodium @danderzei @oantolin @minad @tusharhero @kickingvegas @divyaranjan @sanityinc @ramin_hal9001 @andros @yantar92 @bzg @mousebot @ericsfraga @amake @mms @pixelate @susam (sorry if I forgot you)
@jameshowell @chesheer @joeress @tarsius @publicvoit @daviwil @sacha @rougier @howard @bbatsov @xenodium @danderzei @oantolin @minad @tusharhero @kickingvegas @sanityinc @ramin_hal9001 @andros @yantar92 @bzg @mousebot @ericsfraga @amake @mms @pixelate @susam
Those two are absolutely the most fundamental reasons for me to choose Emacs today too. Emacs is the best counterexample to anybody who says: "freedom is not practical".
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RE: https://framapiaf.org/@newsycombinator/116202173100706221
Interesting read. At first my response was "What? WHY?? No!"
But then I remembered: this is exactly why we cherish #FreeSoftware! So fly your freak flag, my friend!
@jameshowell I nervous when I saw solo/refactor/emacs because my mind immediately jumped to another LLM laundered relicensing scheme. Then I saw that's actually my craftering friend LionyxML and I was happy for his project getting love, what a rollercoaster!
I also use his super useful Auto-Dark for Emacs and some snippets from Emacs Solo. He's always lovely to chat with and helpful, overall good guy and seems like he's enjoying the opportunity to keep his blog from getting hugged to death
James you should also be my Craftering friend wink/nudge/intimidation
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@jameshowell @chesheer @joeress @tarsius @publicvoit @daviwil @sacha @rougier @howard @bbatsov @xenodium @danderzei @oantolin @minad @tusharhero @kickingvegas @sanityinc @ramin_hal9001 @andros @yantar92 @bzg @mousebot @ericsfraga @amake @mms @pixelate @susam
Those two are absolutely the most fundamental reasons for me to choose Emacs today too. Emacs is the best counterexample to anybody who says: "freedom is not practical".
@divyaranjan @susam @mms @amake @ericsfraga @mousebot @bzg @yantar92 @andros @ramin_hal9001 @sanityinc @kickingvegas @tusharhero @minad @oantolin @danderzei @xenodium @bbatsov @howard @rougier @sacha @daviwil @publicvoit@graz.social @tarsius @joeress @chesheer @jameshowell For me, Emacs was the first interesting and even enjoyable computing environment. It has a tutorial right there. The key bindings were different but sensible. Emacspeak made the text come alive with italics, bold, and other syntax where every single other screen reader just treats everything the same, as grey, uniform text. Even today, 30 years on, it's the same. There are ways that either require addons or making your own system of mappings, but Emacspeak comes with it already on, just as every visual interface shows formatting.
Emacs was the reason why I got into Linux and other operating systems besides Windows, simply because Emacspeak worked better on Mac and Linux than on Windows, and that's still the case. Emacs is why I won't be able to go back to boring old iOS, because with Termux, I can run it and Emacspeak on Android.
Emacs is kind of my safe space in computing. Not too much changes, there's no popups or ads, there's no in-your-face "What's new!" or "Try this!" stuff. It's so cozy and calm. A lot of it has stayed the same since I was 15 or so just learning the movement keys to now. If something doesn't work the way I want with emacspeak, or something breaks, I can now have AI fix it for me. This is really useful now that the maintainer stepped away a year and a half ago.
Also MaGit works very well. I can just think about what I want to do rather than what Git commands I need to do it. And this isn't even getting into Org-mode. I still need to make my perfect system, but being able to capture stuff, or store links to anything in Emacs, is really nice. And it's all with the same beautiful, calming, and fun interface as everything else. Company helps me complete text, with Emacspeak telling me when options come up and what those options are, not just through spoken prompts, but sounds too. And believe me, just hearing a boring voice all day gets boring, so sounds are really nice.
Of course, there are things I wish Emacs did better. I'd love a package that handles Google's authentication stuff so I could hop right into my Gmail accounts inside Emacs. But Gmail isn't exactly foss-friendly, so I'm not expecting that any time soon.
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@jameshowell I nervous when I saw solo/refactor/emacs because my mind immediately jumped to another LLM laundered relicensing scheme. Then I saw that's actually my craftering friend LionyxML and I was happy for his project getting love, what a rollercoaster!
I also use his super useful Auto-Dark for Emacs and some snippets from Emacs Solo. He's always lovely to chat with and helpful, overall good guy and seems like he's enjoying the opportunity to keep his blog from getting hugged to death
James you should also be my Craftering friend wink/nudge/intimidation
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@jameshowell I nervous when I saw solo/refactor/emacs because my mind immediately jumped to another LLM laundered relicensing scheme. Then I saw that's actually my craftering friend LionyxML and I was happy for his project getting love, what a rollercoaster!
I also use his super useful Auto-Dark for Emacs and some snippets from Emacs Solo. He's always lovely to chat with and helpful, overall good guy and seems like he's enjoying the opportunity to keep his blog from getting hugged to death
James you should also be my Craftering friend wink/nudge/intimidation
@jameshowell just to be pedantically clear (for my sake): join our community webring to become my friend via craftering as well. I'm the primary maintainer but definitely a community project, so felt like I needed clarify for my own benefit.
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@divyaranjan @susam @mms @amake @ericsfraga @mousebot @bzg @yantar92 @andros @ramin_hal9001 @sanityinc @kickingvegas @tusharhero @minad @oantolin @danderzei @xenodium @bbatsov @howard @rougier @sacha @daviwil @publicvoit@graz.social @tarsius @joeress @chesheer @jameshowell For me, Emacs was the first interesting and even enjoyable computing environment. It has a tutorial right there. The key bindings were different but sensible. Emacspeak made the text come alive with italics, bold, and other syntax where every single other screen reader just treats everything the same, as grey, uniform text. Even today, 30 years on, it's the same. There are ways that either require addons or making your own system of mappings, but Emacspeak comes with it already on, just as every visual interface shows formatting.
Emacs was the reason why I got into Linux and other operating systems besides Windows, simply because Emacspeak worked better on Mac and Linux than on Windows, and that's still the case. Emacs is why I won't be able to go back to boring old iOS, because with Termux, I can run it and Emacspeak on Android.
Emacs is kind of my safe space in computing. Not too much changes, there's no popups or ads, there's no in-your-face "What's new!" or "Try this!" stuff. It's so cozy and calm. A lot of it has stayed the same since I was 15 or so just learning the movement keys to now. If something doesn't work the way I want with emacspeak, or something breaks, I can now have AI fix it for me. This is really useful now that the maintainer stepped away a year and a half ago.
Also MaGit works very well. I can just think about what I want to do rather than what Git commands I need to do it. And this isn't even getting into Org-mode. I still need to make my perfect system, but being able to capture stuff, or store links to anything in Emacs, is really nice. And it's all with the same beautiful, calming, and fun interface as everything else. Company helps me complete text, with Emacspeak telling me when options come up and what those options are, not just through spoken prompts, but sounds too. And believe me, just hearing a boring voice all day gets boring, so sounds are really nice.
Of course, there are things I wish Emacs did better. I'd love a package that handles Google's authentication stuff so I could hop right into my Gmail accounts inside Emacs. But Gmail isn't exactly foss-friendly, so I'm not expecting that any time soon.
@pixelate Too bad T.V. Raman isn't on here to shout out too.
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@divyaranjan @susam @mms @amake @ericsfraga @mousebot @bzg @yantar92 @andros @ramin_hal9001 @sanityinc @kickingvegas @tusharhero @minad @oantolin @danderzei @xenodium @bbatsov @howard @rougier @sacha @daviwil @publicvoit@graz.social @tarsius @joeress @chesheer @jameshowell For me, Emacs was the first interesting and even enjoyable computing environment. It has a tutorial right there. The key bindings were different but sensible. Emacspeak made the text come alive with italics, bold, and other syntax where every single other screen reader just treats everything the same, as grey, uniform text. Even today, 30 years on, it's the same. There are ways that either require addons or making your own system of mappings, but Emacspeak comes with it already on, just as every visual interface shows formatting.
Emacs was the reason why I got into Linux and other operating systems besides Windows, simply because Emacspeak worked better on Mac and Linux than on Windows, and that's still the case. Emacs is why I won't be able to go back to boring old iOS, because with Termux, I can run it and Emacspeak on Android.
Emacs is kind of my safe space in computing. Not too much changes, there's no popups or ads, there's no in-your-face "What's new!" or "Try this!" stuff. It's so cozy and calm. A lot of it has stayed the same since I was 15 or so just learning the movement keys to now. If something doesn't work the way I want with emacspeak, or something breaks, I can now have AI fix it for me. This is really useful now that the maintainer stepped away a year and a half ago.
Also MaGit works very well. I can just think about what I want to do rather than what Git commands I need to do it. And this isn't even getting into Org-mode. I still need to make my perfect system, but being able to capture stuff, or store links to anything in Emacs, is really nice. And it's all with the same beautiful, calming, and fun interface as everything else. Company helps me complete text, with Emacspeak telling me when options come up and what those options are, not just through spoken prompts, but sounds too. And believe me, just hearing a boring voice all day gets boring, so sounds are really nice.
Of course, there are things I wish Emacs did better. I'd love a package that handles Google's authentication stuff so I could hop right into my Gmail accounts inside Emacs. But Gmail isn't exactly foss-friendly, so I'm not expecting that any time soon.
@devinprater You can still have Gmail inside Emacs through IMAP. It will fetch your mail from Gmail and have them inside Emacs. It can either be Gnus or mu4e as you'd wish
