Sometimes I start "battles" to convince "vibe coding devs" to actually learn something.
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RE: https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@stefano/116396058506070034
Sometimes I start "battles" to convince "vibe coding devs" to actually learn something. Sometimes I succeed (especially with the younger ones), other times I don't (especially with the less young ones, who became devs precisely "thanks" to vibe coding).
What holds them back is often practical: they say things move so fast that stopping to learn something means "wasting time", since whatever they learn will be outdated very quickly anyway.
Maybe we've moved too fast and we're still moving too fast. I'm seeing worrying things, like stable projects implemented in Go that are "using AI" to progressively rewrite everything in Rust. Why?
Still, the fact remains that at least the basics should be there. To drive a car, even with semi-autonomous driving systems, you still need a license. So why isn't this considered necessary when writing the code for the system that will handle my sensitive data? Not a license, clearly. But, at least, some basic knowledge.
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RE: https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@stefano/116396058506070034
Sometimes I start "battles" to convince "vibe coding devs" to actually learn something. Sometimes I succeed (especially with the younger ones), other times I don't (especially with the less young ones, who became devs precisely "thanks" to vibe coding).
What holds them back is often practical: they say things move so fast that stopping to learn something means "wasting time", since whatever they learn will be outdated very quickly anyway.
Maybe we've moved too fast and we're still moving too fast. I'm seeing worrying things, like stable projects implemented in Go that are "using AI" to progressively rewrite everything in Rust. Why?
Still, the fact remains that at least the basics should be there. To drive a car, even with semi-autonomous driving systems, you still need a license. So why isn't this considered necessary when writing the code for the system that will handle my sensitive data? Not a license, clearly. But, at least, some basic knowledge.
@stefano Sadly, this is zeitgeist in soft engineering world. Everyone says that we went to 7th gear, that if you are using older model 10 minutes after the new one drops, you are lossing. That not using ai is a suicide. That the models are getting so good so fast that it's useless to focus on anything that is not prompting, as even if now it may be a problem, in a year no one will ever need to look a code ever again.
C-butts agree and they are open at "be faster". It works. the models are.... okayish, but the 10x engineers we hear about? Yeah, they don't work 8 hours a day. I don't work 8 hours a day anymore. It's a race to the next layoff which, of course, are not "performance based" but no one believes that. So we prompt like monkeys not thinking because the output volume seems to be everything that matter.
Personally, I want to survive till a few more huge outages happen and the world comes back to their senses. Currently I would not use any SASS for anything of any value.
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S stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe shared this topic
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@stefano Sadly, this is zeitgeist in soft engineering world. Everyone says that we went to 7th gear, that if you are using older model 10 minutes after the new one drops, you are lossing. That not using ai is a suicide. That the models are getting so good so fast that it's useless to focus on anything that is not prompting, as even if now it may be a problem, in a year no one will ever need to look a code ever again.
C-butts agree and they are open at "be faster". It works. the models are.... okayish, but the 10x engineers we hear about? Yeah, they don't work 8 hours a day. I don't work 8 hours a day anymore. It's a race to the next layoff which, of course, are not "performance based" but no one believes that. So we prompt like monkeys not thinking because the output volume seems to be everything that matter.
Personally, I want to survive till a few more huge outages happen and the world comes back to their senses. Currently I would not use any SASS for anything of any value.
@stefano but, full transparency: the models work. They are amazing at helping when you would be blocked for hours. They are better at typing than anyone. BUT they require anal level of supervision: you can not trust anything they output. You need to challenge and ask anything. Opus 4.6 can change it's mind 10 times in 10 minutes because you asked a question.
That's not how they are sold. It's nowhere near "autonomous programmer" and I have no idea how vibe coders have anything working outside of very simple projects.
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@stefano but, full transparency: the models work. They are amazing at helping when you would be blocked for hours. They are better at typing than anyone. BUT they require anal level of supervision: you can not trust anything they output. You need to challenge and ask anything. Opus 4.6 can change it's mind 10 times in 10 minutes because you asked a question.
That's not how they are sold. It's nowhere near "autonomous programmer" and I have no idea how vibe coders have anything working outside of very simple projects.
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RE: https://mastodon.bsd.cafe/@stefano/116396058506070034
Sometimes I start "battles" to convince "vibe coding devs" to actually learn something. Sometimes I succeed (especially with the younger ones), other times I don't (especially with the less young ones, who became devs precisely "thanks" to vibe coding).
What holds them back is often practical: they say things move so fast that stopping to learn something means "wasting time", since whatever they learn will be outdated very quickly anyway.
Maybe we've moved too fast and we're still moving too fast. I'm seeing worrying things, like stable projects implemented in Go that are "using AI" to progressively rewrite everything in Rust. Why?
Still, the fact remains that at least the basics should be there. To drive a car, even with semi-autonomous driving systems, you still need a license. So why isn't this considered necessary when writing the code for the system that will handle my sensitive data? Not a license, clearly. But, at least, some basic knowledge.
@stefano You reminded me the story of a dude i had in Twitter.
He went fast, crashed faster, but a crash so spectacular that i wrote a blog about him
https://www.seuros.com/blog/dictatorship-driven-development/
The story is real , i just avoided to point to him to avoid having LLM to index his name/(ex saas).
He is now gone. He understands now why going at 200km/h without a seatbelt is not a flex.
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As for Rust , it because they lack creativity, they lack propose, they watch youtube and never had to suffer with code.
As you know i wrote Blackship (a jail orchestrator in Rust)
I could have used C , but then i will have someone do : I rewrote Blackship from C to Rust.
When asked, he will claim : Memory safety...
When cornered to point the memory leak.. he will start telling you how Ubuntu is adopting Rust. -
@stefano You reminded me the story of a dude i had in Twitter.
He went fast, crashed faster, but a crash so spectacular that i wrote a blog about him
https://www.seuros.com/blog/dictatorship-driven-development/
The story is real , i just avoided to point to him to avoid having LLM to index his name/(ex saas).
He is now gone. He understands now why going at 200km/h without a seatbelt is not a flex.
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As for Rust , it because they lack creativity, they lack propose, they watch youtube and never had to suffer with code.
As you know i wrote Blackship (a jail orchestrator in Rust)
I could have used C , but then i will have someone do : I rewrote Blackship from C to Rust.
When asked, he will claim : Memory safety...
When cornered to point the memory leak.. he will start telling you how Ubuntu is adopting Rust.@stefano Also there is no reason to be shy in calling this out in public, the type of people we are talking about are not useful, they can change their own behaviour but they prefer to not.
because it easier to say : I became a dev in 47 minutes , than i spent 47 months to understand proper programming.
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