There’s a limited supply of oil.
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Not quite. 85% of the whole PV supply chain is controlled by one country - #China
Not saying PV is wrong on itself, but the current European model of "energy transformation" where all manufacturing was outsourced to a hostile country is just as suicidal as previous outsourcing of fossil fuels to Russia.
@kravietz except panels will work fine for decades, while fuel will do it's job exactly once.
It's difference between owning and subscription
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There’s a limited supply of oil. It’s very expensive and wars are fought for it.
There is endless sunlight. It’s free and no wars are fought for it.
Let’s choose solar.
No Green Transition without Green Sacrifice Zones
Nickel Mining Threatens Palawan Forests and Livelihoods Despite Moratorium – Intercontinental Cry
Palawan—long hailed as the Philippines’ ‘last ecological frontier’—is once again under siege. Despite the mounting threats mining poses to indigenous ancestral
Intercontinental Cry (icmagazine.org)
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There’s a limited supply of oil. It’s very expensive and wars are fought for it.
There is endless sunlight. It’s free and no wars are fought for it.
Let’s choose solar.
@nickofnz No country was ever invaded for its wind or sunlight.
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@nickofnz No country was ever invaded for its wind or sunlight.
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@nickofnz I'm all for renewable technologies, however sorry, but I think that this kind of over-simplistic arguments using in the discourse are more harmful than useful.
First, solar is nor unlimited (night, cloudy weather) and has environmental costs like solar panels taking land, etc. Second, solar panels need silicon which is not unlimited, and 80% of it comes from China, so it is easy to imagine how politics and possible wars can also easily disrupt it. So, in a sense, there is a limited supply of solar as well, and wars can also be fought for it.
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@mo@mastodon.ml @nickofnz@mastodon.nz
Yes, there's definitely huge difference between fuel and generation infrastructure, except it's not as simple as "buy once, use for decades":
- due to very low surface power density of PV you need millions of these
- each year some of them fail, which you need to replace, and the whole economic viability depends on prices of these planned for decades in advance
- PV depend on inverters and most of the Chinese ones come with firmware backdoors that are remotely exploitable
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There’s a limited supply of oil. It’s very expensive and wars are fought for it.
There is endless sunlight. It’s free and no wars are fought for it.
Let’s choose solar.
@nickofnz Solar is an enormous improvement on traditional sources of electricity production in terms of sustainability — especially fossil fuels.
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@mo@mastodon.ml @nickofnz@mastodon.nz
Yes, there's definitely huge difference between fuel and generation infrastructure, except it's not as simple as "buy once, use for decades":
- due to very low surface power density of PV you need millions of these
- each year some of them fail, which you need to replace, and the whole economic viability depends on prices of these planned for decades in advance
- PV depend on inverters and most of the Chinese ones come with firmware backdoors that are remotely exploitable
@kravietz
solar cell is literally just thin silicon plate with wires, under glass, if you don't throw rocks on it there's no point of failureDo you have any sources on remote exploits in inverters, or it's just speculations?
Because inverter (especially producing constant frequency AC) is such a simple device, you literally don't need any microprocessor to run it, neither connect it to network -
@kravietz
solar cell is literally just thin silicon plate with wires, under glass, if you don't throw rocks on it there's no point of failureDo you have any sources on remote exploits in inverters, or it's just speculations?
Because inverter (especially producing constant frequency AC) is such a simple device, you literally don't need any microprocessor to run it, neither connect it to network@mo@mastodon.ml @nickofnz@mastodon.nz
if you don't throw rocks on it there's no point of failure
How about hailstorm or strong wind? There are documented cases where each of them have annihilated whole PV farms in one go.
any sources on remote exploits in inverters
Of course: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/the-gigantic-unregulated-power-plants-in-the-cloud/
That's one reason why NIS2 was extended to energy sector, against the protests of the PV sector who of course moaned about "cost increases".
neither connect it to network
Unfortunately, we're living in 21st century and every PV owner wants to show off their generation on an online app
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@nickofnz I'm all for renewable technologies, however sorry, but I think that this kind of over-simplistic arguments using in the discourse are more harmful than useful.
First, solar is nor unlimited (night, cloudy weather) and has environmental costs like solar panels taking land, etc. Second, solar panels need silicon which is not unlimited, and 80% of it comes from China, so it is easy to imagine how politics and possible wars can also easily disrupt it. So, in a sense, there is a limited supply of solar as well, and wars can also be fought for it.
@tymwol @nickofnz In terms of land, we have a load of it that's being wasted on a single use (buildings, roads, monocrops) that are prime candidates to gain a second use. Put a relatively small number of PV panels on your house and you've removed 20-25 years' worth of fuel being burnt to supply you with electricity.
In addition, the vast majority of material in the panels is recyclable; even better, potentially reusable.
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Not quite. 85% of the whole PV supply chain is controlled by one country - #China
Not saying PV is wrong on itself, but the current European model of "energy transformation" where all manufacturing was outsourced to a hostile country is just as suicidal as previous outsourcing of fossil fuels to Russia.
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