I woke up still pondering @girlonthenet's lamentation (I think; https://mastodon.social/@girlonthenet/116353766078817354), that while lots of people enjoy her sex blog, few people boost her toots about it.
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Given the very vibrant kink scene in London, I also am rather skeptical of this, but I would be interested to hear your experiences if you have any first or second-hand knowledge of people in the UK getting in trouble with the law for sharing or hosting consensual kink content online.
@joykill @neil
Apologies if this is way more than you were anticipating/wanted but...sources: I am a UK based kinkster in the scene for 20 years who also runs community events & is actively involved in community safety.
Also a UK based lawyer who is also a kinkster and has writings on Fetlife about this along with the legal realities of being actively engaged in kink in the UK.
Sources from his writing:1/
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@joykill @neil
Apologies if this is way more than you were anticipating/wanted but...sources: I am a UK based kinkster in the scene for 20 years who also runs community events & is actively involved in community safety.
Also a UK based lawyer who is also a kinkster and has writings on Fetlife about this along with the legal realities of being actively engaged in kink in the UK.
Sources from his writing:1/
@joykill @neil The Spanner Case & House of Lords judgement (yes 1987 & influenced by them being gay but it is precedent & now binding): https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1993/19.html
R. v. Wilson 1996: https://www.lawteacher.net/cases/consent-wilson.php
R. v. Emmett 1999: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/1999/1710.html2/
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@joykill @neil The Spanner Case & House of Lords judgement (yes 1987 & influenced by them being gay but it is precedent & now binding): https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1993/19.html
R. v. Wilson 1996: https://www.lawteacher.net/cases/consent-wilson.php
R. v. Emmett 1999: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/1999/1710.html2/
@joykill @neil The Domestic Abuse Act 2021 "If you cause someone else serious harm, then it is not a defence that the person consented to it. Serious harm has the same meaning as for s.75A of the SCA (anything from actual bodily harm upwards, so bruises are in scope)."
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2021/17/contentsAlso many kink focused sex worker friends who have had to change what content they create to avoid
Also the government: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-abuse-bill-2020-factsheets/consent-to-serious-harm-for-sexual-gratification-not-a-defence .
3/3
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Given the very vibrant kink scene in London, I also am rather skeptical of this, but I would be interested to hear your experiences if you have any first or second-hand knowledge of people in the UK getting in trouble with the law for sharing or hosting consensual kink content online.
> first or second-hand knowledge of people in the UK getting in trouble with the law for sharing or hosting consensual kink content online
Specifically online, I can think of case law around obscenity, and around images depicting illegal acts (in the sense of extreme pornography), but not about, say, a foot fetish.
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> first or second-hand knowledge of people in the UK getting in trouble with the law for sharing or hosting consensual kink content online
Specifically online, I can think of case law around obscenity, and around images depicting illegal acts (in the sense of extreme pornography), but not about, say, a foot fetish.
It really does depend though, and there are things which consenting parties may undertake which, if they were distribute in photographic form, would amount to an offence.
But there are also many things which would fall under the umbrella of "kink" which are not prohibit (in terms of the action, or photography etc. depicting it). To the extent that constitutes pornography though - the definition of which in the OSA is opaque - there are additional obligations relating to hosting it.
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It really does depend though, and there are things which consenting parties may undertake which, if they were distribute in photographic form, would amount to an offence.
But there are also many things which would fall under the umbrella of "kink" which are not prohibit (in terms of the action, or photography etc. depicting it). To the extent that constitutes pornography though - the definition of which in the OSA is opaque - there are additional obligations relating to hosting it.
The law of consent, when it comes to (consensual, in the common sense of the term) sexual activity, is in dire need of reform.
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> most kink is illegal in the UK
I am rather sceptical of this!
Some, for sure, but I'd be surprised by "most"!
@neil
Ah. This is the fallout of Operation Spanner and R. v Brown (no relation I assume) thing.
IANAL but a lot of stuff is questionably not legal. Whether in 2026 the authorities would care about it up in the air but the Sexual Offences Act 2003 clouded it even more.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@neil
Ah. This is the fallout of Operation Spanner and R. v Brown (no relation I assume) thing.
IANAL but a lot of stuff is questionably not legal. Whether in 2026 the authorities would care about it up in the air but the Sexual Offences Act 2003 clouded it even more.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Kink covers a broad spectrum, and there are plenty of things where, IMHO, there is no genuine debate about legality.
Similarly, there are things which could indeed be prosecuted, despite being "obviously" consensual.
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@neil
Ah. This is the fallout of Operation Spanner and R. v Brown (no relation I assume) thing.
IANAL but a lot of stuff is questionably not legal. Whether in 2026 the authorities would care about it up in the air but the Sexual Offences Act 2003 clouded it even more.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
idk if being blocked by a server is such a big deal tbh. I would personally prefer to freely engage with the people I'm interested in, rather than hold off for fear that some unknown corner of the internet admined by puritans might not get to see my posts.
@joykill
it is, because so often it is not a sinle person that is blocked but the whole server they are on
(might not happen to the people using mastodon.social that is too big to fail)If a server is blocked, this cuts you off from any interaction with your friends there, or if the block happened before you will never find your friends there to begin
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@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Kink covers a broad spectrum, and there are plenty of things where, IMHO, there is no genuine debate about legality.
Similarly, there are things which could indeed be prosecuted, despite being "obviously" consensual.
@neil
Agreed but a vast majority of modern kink, as I see it on a popular social network specifically devoted to it* is well beyond breaking English and Welsh law. No matter how many roses you stick on the bed
*No names because they're ignoring the OSA, aren't doing anything about it and I'm surprised they haven't come up on OfCom's radar yet.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
> most kink is illegal in the UK
I am rather sceptical of this!
Some, for sure, but I'd be surprised by "most"!
@neil @alexisbushnell @joykill I was under the impression it was generally fine until you cause harm to another party. Which - AIUI (IANAL) - is a pretty old legal principle which runs the gamut from "assault" up to "murder".
Sidequest topic, I think we'd be better teaching people how to do the harder "will fuck you up" stuff safely (or at least more safely) if they insist on doing it. Because it beats them being dead.
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@neil
Agreed but a vast majority of modern kink, as I see it on a popular social network specifically devoted to it* is well beyond breaking English and Welsh law. No matter how many roses you stick on the bed
*No names because they're ignoring the OSA, aren't doing anything about it and I'm surprised they haven't come up on OfCom's radar yet.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Sure - as I say, it will depend entirely on what it is. Plus, some communities tend towards some kinks more than others, so what you see in one place may be not be a representative sample.
Whether this is "most" or not though is, I guess, beside the point, as it seems that we all agree that there are commonly enjoyed activities which might be hard, in law, to defend.
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@neil @alexisbushnell @joykill I was under the impression it was generally fine until you cause harm to another party. Which - AIUI (IANAL) - is a pretty old legal principle which runs the gamut from "assault" up to "murder".
Sidequest topic, I think we'd be better teaching people how to do the harder "will fuck you up" stuff safely (or at least more safely) if they insist on doing it. Because it beats them being dead.
@philpem @alexisbushnell @joykill
It is indeed a challenging, and politically and socially motivated, grey area.
(I find it difficult to read Brown, for instance, as anything other than homophobic.)
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@neil @girlonthenet I'm actually mistaken. The articles are accessible, the audio isn't. I think I had it in my head the articles were self blocked as well. I'll read some when I can~ and if I like any, i'll share em~
@OliviaVespera @neil thanks, much appreciated
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@philpem @alexisbushnell @joykill
It is indeed a challenging, and politically and socially motivated, grey area.
(I find it difficult to read Brown, for instance, as anything other than homophobic.)
@philpem @alexisbushnell @joykill
One also sees the "but they cannot have consented to that" deployed broadly by activists too, generally in the context of seeking control over other people's lives and behaviours, ignoring the fact that many people do, in reality, consent to such things.
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@neil @alexisbushnell @joykill I was under the impression it was generally fine until you cause harm to another party. Which - AIUI (IANAL) - is a pretty old legal principle which runs the gamut from "assault" up to "murder".
Sidequest topic, I think we'd be better teaching people how to do the harder "will fuck you up" stuff safely (or at least more safely) if they insist on doing it. Because it beats them being dead.
@philpem @neil @joykill totally agree that teaching people how to do risky things they want to do in a safer manner and encouraging personal responsibility is the way forward.
Sadly, especially when it comes to sex (kink isn't sex but that's a different discussion) that isn't where the government land.
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@jamesb @alexisbushnell @joykill
Sure - as I say, it will depend entirely on what it is. Plus, some communities tend towards some kinks more than others, so what you see in one place may be not be a representative sample.
Whether this is "most" or not though is, I guess, beside the point, as it seems that we all agree that there are commonly enjoyed activities which might be hard, in law, to defend.
@neil
Obviously anything involving violence against the person isn't legal whether there's consent or not, no matter whether it's a quick titty slap or a full on flogging.
I've always wondered where the line is when it comes to bondage and false imprisonment.
I can appreciate that the authorities may not want to tackle the whole thing. Some BDSM relationships can be fulfilling and wholesome, some made of coercion and abuse.
Bias note: Check my profile. I am not really a kinkster but I do own a fucking load of handcuffs. Occasionally they may be used in non law enforcement scenarios.
@alexisbushnell @joykill -
@neil
Obviously anything involving violence against the person isn't legal whether there's consent or not, no matter whether it's a quick titty slap or a full on flogging.
I've always wondered where the line is when it comes to bondage and false imprisonment.
I can appreciate that the authorities may not want to tackle the whole thing. Some BDSM relationships can be fulfilling and wholesome, some made of coercion and abuse.
Bias note: Check my profile. I am not really a kinkster but I do own a fucking load of handcuffs. Occasionally they may be used in non law enforcement scenarios.
@alexisbushnell @joykill@jamesb @neil @joykill I believe there is (or was...) some legislation working its way through the US courts to enshrine consent as a legal defence into law somehow.
I realise it's a sticky area (DV victim in a kink relationship and also very kinky human) but surely we can do better than what we have!
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@jamesb @neil @joykill I believe there is (or was...) some legislation working its way through the US courts to enshrine consent as a legal defence into law somehow.
I realise it's a sticky area (DV victim in a kink relationship and also very kinky human) but surely we can do better than what we have!
@alexisbushnell @jamesb @joykill
> I realise it's a sticky area
The question, legally, is what made it so sticky. That has a strong bearing on the likelihood of the commission of an offence or not...
