When I released my 1st novel in 2011, in that first wave of indies leaving the tradpub path & opting into a new kind of writing career, I thought "this will change not just how writers publish but what they write, what kind of careers they'll have".
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@darkuncle @joshsutphin @Daojoan
I am increasingly allergic to the "things must scale to be 'successful'" ideology, a concept so universally accepted, it's broken and homogenized everything.
I'm a big fan of local in many many ways. And yet I treasure having connections to people in Germany getting my ebooks (and even print books, locally printed) into their bookstores/libraries/homes (for example). I have readers all over the world. This is also good.
I don't have to "scale" to do that.
@susankayequinn @joshsutphin @Daojoan I think there is profound wisdom to be had in questioning what “success” even means
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@susankayequinn @joshsutphin @Daojoan I think there is profound wisdom to be had in questioning what “success” even means
@darkuncle @joshsutphin @Daojoan
I find myself having to constantly remind writers that most writers through all of time never made a living from their work and were not considered "unsuccessful" because of it. It's also a gift when you *don't* have to burden your art with making a living for you.
(I say this as someone who DOES make a living with her work but also knows that some of her work sells better than others and that makes things a lot more clear about what this is about)
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R relay@relay.publicsquare.global shared this topic
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I deeply believe we're swinging into an Age of Authenticity, when people will crave the simple, the hand-made, the REAL even more.
So, yes, discoverability is hard (it's always been hard) but you are a creative...so get creative about how you help people find you. They need your stuff.
@susankayequinn I agree, but I also wonder if we'll start seeing a rise of a new impressionism as a reaction to GenerativeAI. Not just a return to handmade, but a new attempt to build something that is undeniably, honestly new and human.
Think of all art forms embracing a collapse of the old rules, like Angine de Poitrine
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@darkuncle @joshsutphin @Daojoan
I find myself having to constantly remind writers that most writers through all of time never made a living from their work and were not considered "unsuccessful" because of it. It's also a gift when you *don't* have to burden your art with making a living for you.
(I say this as someone who DOES make a living with her work but also knows that some of her work sells better than others and that makes things a lot more clear about what this is about)
@susankayequinn @darkuncle @joshsutphin @Daojoan my definition of success is twofold. 1. That what I write moves people, & 2. That my books earn out their production expenses.
So far, i have definitely achieved the first. And in aggregate over 10 novels, have also managed the second.
If I needed to support a household, I'd still be working as a physical therapist. But our kids are adults, spouse & I are retired.
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@susankayequinn I agree, but I also wonder if we'll start seeing a rise of a new impressionism as a reaction to GenerativeAI. Not just a return to handmade, but a new attempt to build something that is undeniably, honestly new and human.
Think of all art forms embracing a collapse of the old rules, like Angine de Poitrine
@craignicol that's old media, offline, repair shops for cassette players and VHS, DIY everything, craft everything, allll the knitting arts, it's been happening for a while and now is accelerating
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@susankayequinn @darkuncle @joshsutphin @Daojoan my definition of success is twofold. 1. That what I write moves people, & 2. That my books earn out their production expenses.
So far, i have definitely achieved the first. And in aggregate over 10 novels, have also managed the second.
If I needed to support a household, I'd still be working as a physical therapist. But our kids are adults, spouse & I are retired.
@LJ I know a few retirees who are writers and I think they find it very freeing!
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I deeply believe we're swinging into an Age of Authenticity, when people will crave the simple, the hand-made, the REAL even more.
So, yes, discoverability is hard (it's always been hard) but you are a creative...so get creative about how you help people find you. They need your stuff.
I'm creative about my writing, but my creativity about marketing doesn't extend farther than the odd "hey, read my books" post
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@susankayequinn I increasingly believe the only sustainable way forward for creative work is to focus on local first and find ways to afford life without needing to scale much beyond your own community. So much trouble has been caused by the idea that you have to go national/global to be successful.
Unfortunately, of course, there are some capitalism things that get in the way of this.
@joshsutphin
True enough, but when your writing is niche, then the chances of local support grow slimThis is not going be a universal solution to being heard above the slop machines
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@violetmadder @darkuncle @joshsutphin @susankayequinn @Daojoan Unfortunately because of whatever forces of the market, if your works don´t infinitely grow, you won´t make money to sustain yourself. That´s what I see as someone outside of those circles
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@joshsutphin
True enough, but when your writing is niche, then the chances of local support grow slimThis is not going be a universal solution to being heard above the slop machines
I think the assumption that the slop machines are *loud* and that you have to be heard above them is not quite what's really happening. What slop is doing is breaking trust -- people aren't sure what's "real" sometimes -- and also (for books) doing a form of DDOS attack, breaking the actual infrastructure (sci-fi zines, retailer hosting) that delivers stories (distributors are also using AI to justify raising costs on authors).
But it's not burying your work...
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I think the assumption that the slop machines are *loud* and that you have to be heard above them is not quite what's really happening. What slop is doing is breaking trust -- people aren't sure what's "real" sometimes -- and also (for books) doing a form of DDOS attack, breaking the actual infrastructure (sci-fi zines, retailer hosting) that delivers stories (distributors are also using AI to justify raising costs on authors).
But it's not burying your work...
...and in fact the answer to all of it is human-to-human recommendations, which is the primary discovery mechanism for books anyway, and always has been. So, in a way, the distrust that AI breeds drives people to seek more recommendations from trusted friends (in person or online) and increases the usage of human-to-human connection (word of mouth)... which is to our advantage. No one's recommending slop! (well, no one you trust)
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I've had people say "I don't care about money!" (as if it's a badge of honor) and then they set all their books free (or pub online) to have "widest access" and they think that's the way to get "the most" readers. But it's not. It assumes cost is the most important barrier, but it's really not.
I hear you.
The money is certainly not my *primary* motive, and being a bestselling author also holds little interest.However, reaching the kind of reader who is eager to consume dark short stories about murder and misadventure, or novels about delightfully lethal female psychopaths, is tricky unless one goes wide
I don't fancy myself as a brilliant writer, but I do craft stories that are enjoyable to a specific narrow audience
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...and in fact the answer to all of it is human-to-human recommendations, which is the primary discovery mechanism for books anyway, and always has been. So, in a way, the distrust that AI breeds drives people to seek more recommendations from trusted friends (in person or online) and increases the usage of human-to-human connection (word of mouth)... which is to our advantage. No one's recommending slop! (well, no one you trust)
@susankayequinn @screwturn Of note (re: the slop being loud), we're out selling at a local market today, and in this environment, literally nobody cares about or is talking about AI. It's such an internet thing! (And yeah, today's sales won't support us for the year or anything, but it's a validating data point nevertheless.)
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@susankayequinn @screwturn Of note (re: the slop being loud), we're out selling at a local market today, and in this environment, literally nobody cares about or is talking about AI. It's such an internet thing! (And yeah, today's sales won't support us for the year or anything, but it's a validating data point nevertheless.)
@joshsutphin that is awesome! I know when it shows up in real life (this is an issue at some art fairs) that people are very negative about it
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@susankayequinn @screwturn Of note (re: the slop being loud), we're out selling at a local market today, and in this environment, literally nobody cares about or is talking about AI. It's such an internet thing! (And yeah, today's sales won't support us for the year or anything, but it's a validating data point nevertheless.)
Care to elaborate?
Are you setting up a stand with a box of books and a cash box? -
Care to elaborate?
Are you setting up a stand with a box of books and a cash box?@screwturn @susankayequinn Pretty much!
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@screwturn @susankayequinn Pretty much!
@joshsutphin ok I had somehow blanked that you were Shiraki press LOL!! Nice table setup!
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@joshsutphin ok I had somehow blanked that you were Shiraki press LOL!! Nice table setup!
@joshsutphin also my comments about "publishers" are almost always aimed at the Big5/4/howeverManyThereAreNow not small press, who are out there doing some really great work and usually on a shoestring too. I hope you're getting some good response at the tables! I did a lot of tabling last year and meeting readers is really amazing and such good connection/feedback. I'm not tabling this year for Reasons but it's great to see Shiraki doing this!
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@joshsutphin also my comments about "publishers" are almost always aimed at the Big5/4/howeverManyThereAreNow not small press, who are out there doing some really great work and usually on a shoestring too. I hope you're getting some good response at the tables! I did a lot of tabling last year and meeting readers is really amazing and such good connection/feedback. I'm not tabling this year for Reasons but it's great to see Shiraki doing this!
@susankayequinn @screwturn Oh yeah the dichotomy is real for sure. But we did okay for it being our first market! Folks responded pretty positively to our hopepunk brand, although I will say the despair feels so deeply rooted into our culture at this point that that positive response was almost always moderated with nervous laughter. 🫠
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@susankayequinn @screwturn Oh yeah the dichotomy is real for sure. But we did okay for it being our first market! Folks responded pretty positively to our hopepunk brand, although I will say the despair feels so deeply rooted into our culture at this point that that positive response was almost always moderated with nervous laughter. 🫠
@joshsutphin that is so real.
I've been tabling for a few years & last year really was Despair Soup...but people were absolutely hungry for something like real hope. Even in stories (maybe especially). And this is your first time! Exciting.
One thing I've found really helps is having zines to hand out -- especially since you're introducing a new(ish) genre, that's immediately a talk piece.
I spent half my time evangalizing with my #solarpunk zine https://brightgreenfutures.substack.com/p/zines
