Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (Cyborg)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Brand Logo

CIRCLE WITH A DOT

  1. Home
  2. Uncategorized
  3. I want to do some more stuff with Apricot graphics.

I want to do some more stuff with Apricot graphics.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Uncategorized
aprilcot
36 Posts 9 Posters 3 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

    Well that's not right.

    Link Preview Image
    elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE This user is from outside of this forum
    elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE This user is from outside of this forum
    elithebearded@fed.qaz.red
    wrote last edited by
    #13

    @bytex64

    That's winning at solitaire

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

      Well, it's 14 before it starts visibly slowing down. It can actually get to 15 or 16 before the counter increments. This is a hand-written assembly routine. The reason it's leaving trails is because this is using REP MOVSW instead of XOR. And now that I think about it, that means each one is being drawn twice. So that should more than account for any kind of fix to the trails being drawn here.

      I'm calculating the offset into the array of sprite data (one for each X offset in the character cell) using a regular old MUL, so there' s probably some performance left on the table there. I could precompute those offsets and do a table lookup. Anyway, that's good for tonight.

      elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE This user is from outside of this forum
      elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE This user is from outside of this forum
      elithebearded@fed.qaz.red
      wrote last edited by
      #14

      @bytex64

      Is it really a sprite if it's not in hardware? Otherwise it's just sparkling pixels

      bytex64@awesome.gardenB drj@typo.socialD menos@todon.euM 3 Replies Last reply
      0
      • elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

        @bytex64

        Is it really a sprite if it's not in hardware? Otherwise it's just sparkling pixels

        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
        bytex64@awesome.garden
        wrote last edited by
        #15

        @elithebearded Hah. 🙂 I’d say it’s arguable. The word gets thrown around in a lot of ways to describe everything from the image itself to the particular rendering path.

        For a particularly confusing example, uxn/Varvara “sprites” are rendered by “hardware” but because it’s an emulation-only platform it’s actually a fixed function software blitter.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

          Well, it's 14 before it starts visibly slowing down. It can actually get to 15 or 16 before the counter increments. This is a hand-written assembly routine. The reason it's leaving trails is because this is using REP MOVSW instead of XOR. And now that I think about it, that means each one is being drawn twice. So that should more than account for any kind of fix to the trails being drawn here.

          I'm calculating the offset into the array of sprite data (one for each X offset in the character cell) using a regular old MUL, so there' s probably some performance left on the table there. I could precompute those offsets and do a table lookup. Anyway, that's good for tonight.

          bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
          bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
          bytex64@awesome.garden
          wrote last edited by
          #16

          17, and no trails!

          bytex64@awesome.gardenB poetaster@mastodon.gamedev.placeP 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

            17, and no trails!

            bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
            bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
            bytex64@awesome.garden
            wrote last edited by
            #17

            This has the pointer table optimization (every shifted version of the sprite is pointed to from a table instead of being calculated via MUL). I created a whole second routine to blank sprites, which is the same thing except it does STOSW instead MOVSW. It took me longer to get that working than the sprite draw routine because I misunderstood the documentation. I thought it referenced DS for the target and not ES because Intel's manual didn't specify either.

            This is still a very bad draw routine because it just overwrites the entire 16-pixel word instead of doing proper masking. That'll probably drop the performance by 30% because it can't use the 8086's fast string instructions.

            tursilion@furries.clubT bytex64@awesome.gardenB 2 Replies Last reply
            0
            • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

              This has the pointer table optimization (every shifted version of the sprite is pointed to from a table instead of being calculated via MUL). I created a whole second routine to blank sprites, which is the same thing except it does STOSW instead MOVSW. It took me longer to get that working than the sprite draw routine because I misunderstood the documentation. I thought it referenced DS for the target and not ES because Intel's manual didn't specify either.

              This is still a very bad draw routine because it just overwrites the entire 16-pixel word instead of doing proper masking. That'll probably drop the performance by 30% because it can't use the 8086's fast string instructions.

              tursilion@furries.clubT This user is from outside of this forum
              tursilion@furries.clubT This user is from outside of this forum
              tursilion@furries.club
              wrote last edited by
              #18

              @bytex64 What if you used the old Apple2 trick of XORing the sprites instead. Gives you draw and erase without destroying the background (at the cost of some corruption, but it's generally ignorable 🙂 )

              bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • tursilion@furries.clubT tursilion@furries.club

                @bytex64 What if you used the old Apple2 trick of XORing the sprites instead. Gives you draw and erase without destroying the background (at the cost of some corruption, but it's generally ignorable 🙂 )

                bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                bytex64@awesome.garden
                wrote last edited by
                #19

                @tursilion That’s what I did initially in the naive version. It does work, but it also can’t take advantage of REP STOSW for fast copies, so it’ll be slower.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                  17, and no trails!

                  poetaster@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                  poetaster@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                  poetaster@mastodon.gamedev.place
                  wrote last edited by
                  #20

                  @bytex64 exceedingky cute axoloinvaders!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                    This has the pointer table optimization (every shifted version of the sprite is pointed to from a table instead of being calculated via MUL). I created a whole second routine to blank sprites, which is the same thing except it does STOSW instead MOVSW. It took me longer to get that working than the sprite draw routine because I misunderstood the documentation. I thought it referenced DS for the target and not ES because Intel's manual didn't specify either.

                    This is still a very bad draw routine because it just overwrites the entire 16-pixel word instead of doing proper masking. That'll probably drop the performance by 30% because it can't use the 8086's fast string instructions.

                    bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                    bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                    bytex64@awesome.garden
                    wrote last edited by
                    #21

                    We've maxed out the CPU, but the Apricot has another trick - the 8089. It's a dedicated I/O coprocessor, and theoretically it can push bytes even faster than the CPU. If... I can get it working.

                    I've discovered the hard way that Turbo Pascal is really picky about what it can link with. It _only_ wants to link with external functions. If the OBJ file you're linking with has _any_ data segment symbols, it flat out refuses to deal with it. At first I thought this was a subtle bug in how asm89 generates OMF files, but it does the same with a C file compiled with Turbo C. And since asm89 defines the 8089 machine code symbols as data (which I think is correct from the POV of the CPU), it just doesn't work. 😕

                    So I guess I'll just have to copy the machine code into the Pascal source as raw data. That sucks.

                    #Aprilcot

                    bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                      We've maxed out the CPU, but the Apricot has another trick - the 8089. It's a dedicated I/O coprocessor, and theoretically it can push bytes even faster than the CPU. If... I can get it working.

                      I've discovered the hard way that Turbo Pascal is really picky about what it can link with. It _only_ wants to link with external functions. If the OBJ file you're linking with has _any_ data segment symbols, it flat out refuses to deal with it. At first I thought this was a subtle bug in how asm89 generates OMF files, but it does the same with a C file compiled with Turbo C. And since asm89 defines the 8089 machine code symbols as data (which I think is correct from the POV of the CPU), it just doesn't work. 😕

                      So I guess I'll just have to copy the machine code into the Pascal source as raw data. That sucks.

                      #Aprilcot

                      bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                      bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                      bytex64@awesome.garden
                      wrote last edited by
                      #22

                      But anyway, with that worked around, invoking the 8089 from Pascal seems to work. The code here is very simple:

                      MOVI GA, 1
                      ADD [PP].4, GA
                      HLT

                      It just adds 1 to the word at offset 4 in the parameter block. The first two words point to the code itself, so the third one is where parameters live. The Pascal code that invokes it just sets that to 0, and the output below shows that it has been changed, and then dumps the state of the 8089 Channel Control Block.

                      #Aprilcot

                      Link Preview Image
                      bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                        But anyway, with that worked around, invoking the 8089 from Pascal seems to work. The code here is very simple:

                        MOVI GA, 1
                        ADD [PP].4, GA
                        HLT

                        It just adds 1 to the word at offset 4 in the parameter block. The first two words point to the code itself, so the third one is where parameters live. The Pascal code that invokes it just sets that to 0, and the output below shows that it has been changed, and then dumps the state of the 8089 Channel Control Block.

                        #Aprilcot

                        Link Preview Image
                        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                        bytex64@awesome.garden
                        wrote last edited by
                        #23

                        I should probably explain a little bit about the interface to the 8089. Early in the system initialization, the CPU tells the IOP to read the address of a System Configuration Block from the top of ROM. That address is right next to the 8086 reset location at FFFF8h, so if you've ever wondered what those unused bytes were, that's what they're for! This sets up the Channel Control Block, which defines the locations and parameters for executing Channel Parameter Blocks, which define a pointer to the 8089 machine code and parameters to the task. When the 8089 gets a "channel attention" (on the Apricot connected to I/O ports 70h and 72h), it re-reads the CCB for the signaled channel and starts/stops any tasks defined there.

                        #Aprilcot

                        Link Preview Image
                        bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                          I should probably explain a little bit about the interface to the 8089. Early in the system initialization, the CPU tells the IOP to read the address of a System Configuration Block from the top of ROM. That address is right next to the 8086 reset location at FFFF8h, so if you've ever wondered what those unused bytes were, that's what they're for! This sets up the Channel Control Block, which defines the locations and parameters for executing Channel Parameter Blocks, which define a pointer to the 8089 machine code and parameters to the task. When the 8089 gets a "channel attention" (on the Apricot connected to I/O ports 70h and 72h), it re-reads the CCB for the signaled channel and starts/stops any tasks defined there.

                          #Aprilcot

                          Link Preview Image
                          bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                          bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                          bytex64@awesome.garden
                          wrote last edited by
                          #24

                          So it's a little convoluted, but it does make it simple to interleave lots of 8089 programs running under the supervision of different parts of the system. You just wait for a channel to not be busy, load the CCB with the address of your own CPB, and let 'er rip. If a higher priority task needs a channel but one is not available, it can pause a running task, save the CCB info, swap in its own task, run that, swap the old one back in, and continue it. AFAIK nothing in the Apricot system does this, and it's probably moot anyway since the way the 8089 is implemented shares the bus with the CPU, so the 8086 can't make much progress while the 8089 is running, anyway.

                          Apricot typically uses channel 1 for the floppy drive controller. I've read somewhere that channel 2 is used by the Winchester controller, but as far as I've seen in the emulated system, that's not the case. I've also read that the system will run without an 8089, so probably there are some Apricots out there without them.

                          #Aprilcot

                          bytex64@awesome.gardenB drj@typo.socialD 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                            So it's a little convoluted, but it does make it simple to interleave lots of 8089 programs running under the supervision of different parts of the system. You just wait for a channel to not be busy, load the CCB with the address of your own CPB, and let 'er rip. If a higher priority task needs a channel but one is not available, it can pause a running task, save the CCB info, swap in its own task, run that, swap the old one back in, and continue it. AFAIK nothing in the Apricot system does this, and it's probably moot anyway since the way the 8089 is implemented shares the bus with the CPU, so the 8086 can't make much progress while the 8089 is running, anyway.

                            Apricot typically uses channel 1 for the floppy drive controller. I've read somewhere that channel 2 is used by the Winchester controller, but as far as I've seen in the emulated system, that's not the case. I've also read that the system will run without an 8089, so probably there are some Apricots out there without them.

                            #Aprilcot

                            bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                            bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                            bytex64@awesome.garden
                            wrote last edited by
                            #25

                            Part of the magic of what's happening in the assembly above is upon task start, the address of the Channel Parameter Block gets loaded into the PP register in the 8089. It makes it very handy to reference any of those parameters, and the 8089 code doesn't need to know ahead of time where your parameters are. IIRC all the call/jump instructions are signed displacement, so the code is fairly naturally position-independent as well.

                            bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

                              @bytex64

                              Is it really a sprite if it's not in hardware? Otherwise it's just sparkling pixels

                              drj@typo.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                              drj@typo.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                              drj@typo.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #26

                              @elithebearded @bytex64 "hardware sprites" is a term of art, so i'm gonna go with Yes.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                                So it's a little convoluted, but it does make it simple to interleave lots of 8089 programs running under the supervision of different parts of the system. You just wait for a channel to not be busy, load the CCB with the address of your own CPB, and let 'er rip. If a higher priority task needs a channel but one is not available, it can pause a running task, save the CCB info, swap in its own task, run that, swap the old one back in, and continue it. AFAIK nothing in the Apricot system does this, and it's probably moot anyway since the way the 8089 is implemented shares the bus with the CPU, so the 8086 can't make much progress while the 8089 is running, anyway.

                                Apricot typically uses channel 1 for the floppy drive controller. I've read somewhere that channel 2 is used by the Winchester controller, but as far as I've seen in the emulated system, that's not the case. I've also read that the system will run without an 8089, so probably there are some Apricots out there without them.

                                #Aprilcot

                                drj@typo.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                drj@typo.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                drj@typo.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #27

                                @bytex64 as i understand it, this is quite similar to how the DSP in the N64 gets shared between pixel rasterising of triangles and mixing sound samples: every 5ms (that is, more than once a frame) the regular "pixel blatting" microcode in the DSP gets replaced with "audio mixing" and run.

                                bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                                  I want to do some more stuff with Apricot graphics. See, the thing is, these computers don't really _have_ graphics. What they have is a character mode with 16x16 pixel cells. Every pixel is addressable, but every pixel exists inside redefinable character memory, so you have to know where the particular character is in memory to modify its pixels. Which means there's different ways you can map the "characters" to the screen.

                                  I had originally set this up in the usual way, with each cell following the next in rows and columns. But I realized much later that if you arrange the character cells in columns, every column becomes a contiguous region of 16-bit words. The math becomes simpler, and the whole thing runs faster.

                                  #Aprilcot

                                  sverx@mastodon.gamedev.placeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sverx@mastodon.gamedev.placeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sverx@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #28

                                  @bytex64 is there some place where I can read the operations you're doing? or the source code? thanks! 😄

                                  bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • elithebearded@fed.qaz.redE elithebearded@fed.qaz.red

                                    @bytex64

                                    Is it really a sprite if it's not in hardware? Otherwise it's just sparkling pixels

                                    menos@todon.euM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    menos@todon.euM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    menos@todon.eu
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #29

                                    @elithebearded Sparkling sugar water or pixels, that's the question.
                                    @bytex64

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • bytex64@awesome.gardenB bytex64@awesome.garden

                                      I want to do some more stuff with Apricot graphics. See, the thing is, these computers don't really _have_ graphics. What they have is a character mode with 16x16 pixel cells. Every pixel is addressable, but every pixel exists inside redefinable character memory, so you have to know where the particular character is in memory to modify its pixels. Which means there's different ways you can map the "characters" to the screen.

                                      I had originally set this up in the usual way, with each cell following the next in rows and columns. But I realized much later that if you arrange the character cells in columns, every column becomes a contiguous region of 16-bit words. The math becomes simpler, and the whole thing runs faster.

                                      #Aprilcot

                                      spodlife@sunny.gardenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      spodlife@sunny.gardenS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      spodlife@sunny.garden
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #30

                                      @bytex64
                                      I am always tickled when column graphics, like wallpaper, are rediscovered.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • drj@typo.socialD drj@typo.social

                                        @bytex64 as i understand it, this is quite similar to how the DSP in the N64 gets shared between pixel rasterising of triangles and mixing sound samples: every 5ms (that is, more than once a frame) the regular "pixel blatting" microcode in the DSP gets replaced with "audio mixing" and run.

                                        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        bytex64@awesome.garden
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #31

                                        @drj Oh that’s interesting. 🙂

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • sverx@mastodon.gamedev.placeS sverx@mastodon.gamedev.place

                                          @bytex64 is there some place where I can read the operations you're doing? or the source code? thanks! 😄

                                          bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                                          bytex64@awesome.gardenB This user is from outside of this forum
                                          bytex64@awesome.garden
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #32

                                          @sverx Not at the moment, but I’ll try to publish the source at the end of the month.

                                          bytex64@awesome.gardenB 1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups