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  3. Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

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  • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

    Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

    Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

    (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

    downes@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
    downes@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
    downes@mastodon.social
    wrote last edited by
    #13

    @grammargirl Even though I know it's wrong, I'm going to use it, because it sounds a lot better than something like "It is to be hoped that the treaty will be ratified."

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

      Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

      Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

      (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

      flowerpot@mas.toF This user is from outside of this forum
      flowerpot@mas.toF This user is from outside of this forum
      flowerpot@mas.to
      wrote last edited by
      #14

      @grammargirl Depending on the context, I would likely state it as, "I hope the treaty will be ratified."

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

        Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

        Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

        (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

        colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
        colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
        colorblindcowboy@mastodon.art
        wrote last edited by
        #15

        @grammargirl I’d avoid it because of the risk of misreading.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

          Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

          Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

          (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

          colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
          colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
          colorblindcowboy@mastodon.art
          wrote last edited by
          #16

          @grammargirl if we mean it will be signed in a hopeful manner than “The treaty will be signed with feelings of great hope for … “ would have more impact.

          If it’s hoped they’ll sign it, then why not say who hopes it?

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

            Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

            Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

            (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

            christoff@yem.bouncingaroundtheroom.onlineC This user is from outside of this forum
            christoff@yem.bouncingaroundtheroom.onlineC This user is from outside of this forum
            christoff@yem.bouncingaroundtheroom.online
            wrote last edited by
            #17

            @grammargirl I tend to write like a speak, part of editing is "fixing" that loose narrative flow to being something people want to consume, perhaps.

            At this point though, I'd settle for anything that is purely and solely written by flesh and blood humans.

            It can feel like I'm constantly talking to humans via LLM middleman.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

              Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

              Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

              (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

              lhauser@mefi.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
              lhauser@mefi.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
              lhauser@mefi.social
              wrote last edited by
              #18

              @grammargirl I'd use it, even though I'm pretty sure it's not right (the treaty, after all, is not hopeful).

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • ramsey@phpc.socialR ramsey@phpc.social

                @ApostateEnglishman @grammargirl I took it to be more about the use of the adverb and less about the content of the statement, but you’re right—it does give the impression that one is not very confident in the outcome.

                apostateenglishman@mastodon.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                apostateenglishman@mastodon.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                apostateenglishman@mastodon.world
                wrote last edited by
                #19

                @ramsey @grammargirl Yeah, my creative writing was improved when I read that Stephen King almost never uses adverbs - one of the tricks behind his captivating prose style. He even said that "the road to Hell is paved with adverbs." 😆

                Once you get into the habit of avoiding them, writing that uses them a lot ("Especially in dialogue attribution," added Martin wearily) becomes...jarring.

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                • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                  Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                  Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                  (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                  overholt@glammr.usO This user is from outside of this forum
                  overholt@glammr.usO This user is from outside of this forum
                  overholt@glammr.us
                  wrote last edited by
                  #20

                  @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                  moss@beige.partyM grammargirl@zirk.usG climatejenny@biodiversity.socialC 3 Replies Last reply
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                  • overholt@glammr.usO overholt@glammr.us

                    @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                    moss@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                    moss@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                    moss@beige.party
                    wrote last edited by
                    #21

                    @overholt @grammargirl precisely, I was raised on Strunk and White, and it has taken me a long time to undo their rote strictures. I prefer now to write as I naturally speak, which honestly still comes across as stuffy. But yes I will use “hopefully” that way.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                      Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                      Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                      (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                      mansr@society.oftrolls.comM This user is from outside of this forum
                      mansr@society.oftrolls.comM This user is from outside of this forum
                      mansr@society.oftrolls.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #22

                      @grammargirl "The treaty will hopefully be ratified" or "the treaty will be hopefully ratified"? Best to avoid the ambiguity if the intent isn't clear from the context.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                        Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                        Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                        (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                        sista_ray@bildung.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                        sista_ray@bildung.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                        sista_ray@bildung.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #23

                        @grammargirl

                        I know of the objections to this use of hopefully but I don't care. It feels natural to me. And I've just realised that German has "hoffentlich" for this use case and does not need to say "hoffnungsvoll" - possibly a word that English lost at some point?

                        timtfj@mastodon.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                          Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                          Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                          (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                          mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                          mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                          mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.net
                          wrote last edited by
                          #24

                          @grammargirl
                          If the treaty is feeling hopeful at the time of the ratification then it is correctly written; however, this should more likely be restated to clarify why the inanimate object is experiencing emotion. The parties to the thing might hopefully enter into an agreement.

                          mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.net

                            @grammargirl
                            If the treaty is feeling hopeful at the time of the ratification then it is correctly written; however, this should more likely be restated to clarify why the inanimate object is experiencing emotion. The parties to the thing might hopefully enter into an agreement.

                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.net
                            wrote last edited by
                            #25

                            @grammargirl
                            If you really want to keep the word and the comma then I'd be the reader scanning for context to understand what you mean, unless you'd add a few words. For example, Hopefully, I'm predicting the treaty will be ratified. That way, I'm understanding who it is who is feeling the hope.

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                            • overholt@glammr.usO overholt@glammr.us

                              @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                              grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                              grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                              grammargirl@zirk.us
                              wrote last edited by
                              #26

                              @overholt That's what I thought (and hoped) too, but the comments across three networks are proving me wrong.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                                Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                                Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                                (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                                samupstate@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                samupstate@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                samupstate@hachyderm.io
                                wrote last edited by
                                #27

                                @grammargirl I think it would depend on the context though. I don't think I'd use it like that in anything remotely formal. But a post here, or maybe on my blog, sure.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                                  Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                                  Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                                  (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                                  jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jessesheidlower@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #28

                                  @grammargirl
                                  As I regularly report, when I ask my students about this (Ivy-League graduate writing students), for the last several years not a single one has even been aware of a "hopefully" controversy, let alone had an opinion on it.

                                  grammargirl@zirk.usG 2 Replies Last reply
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                                  • jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ jessesheidlower@mastodon.social

                                    @grammargirl
                                    As I regularly report, when I ask my students about this (Ivy-League graduate writing students), for the last several years not a single one has even been aware of a "hopefully" controversy, let alone had an opinion on it.

                                    grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    grammargirl@zirk.us
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #29

                                    @jessesheidlower That's what I had expected to find!

                                    jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                                      @jessesheidlower That's what I had expected to find!

                                      jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      jessesheidlower@mastodon.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #30

                                      @grammargirl
                                      The people who respond to such queries, or who complain to news organizations about the purported misuse of shibboleths, are a very, very, very tiny proportion of language users.

                                      grammargirl@zirk.usG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ jessesheidlower@mastodon.social

                                        @grammargirl
                                        As I regularly report, when I ask my students about this (Ivy-League graduate writing students), for the last several years not a single one has even been aware of a "hopefully" controversy, let alone had an opinion on it.

                                        grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        grammargirl@zirk.us
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #31

                                        @jessesheidlower I'm kind of trying to recreate the most recent survey Garner said he did, but I'm using the sentence from AHD surveys and tried to frame it in a less leading way than Garner.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • overholt@glammr.usO overholt@glammr.us

                                          @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                                          climatejenny@biodiversity.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          climatejenny@biodiversity.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                                          climatejenny@biodiversity.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #32

                                          @overholt @grammargirl I tend toward the rigid side of language disputes, but I gave up on “hopefully” when the AP Stylebook did. Languages change.

                                          grammargirl@zirk.usG 1 Reply Last reply
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