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  3. Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

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  • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

    Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

    Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

    (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

    chigaze@cosocial.caC This user is from outside of this forum
    chigaze@cosocial.caC This user is from outside of this forum
    chigaze@cosocial.ca
    wrote last edited by
    #12

    @grammargirl Yes but I question the comma. When I say it out loud there’s no pause there.

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    • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

      Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

      Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

      (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

      downes@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
      downes@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
      downes@mastodon.social
      wrote last edited by
      #13

      @grammargirl Even though I know it's wrong, I'm going to use it, because it sounds a lot better than something like "It is to be hoped that the treaty will be ratified."

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      • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

        Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

        Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

        (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

        flowerpot@mas.toF This user is from outside of this forum
        flowerpot@mas.toF This user is from outside of this forum
        flowerpot@mas.to
        wrote last edited by
        #14

        @grammargirl Depending on the context, I would likely state it as, "I hope the treaty will be ratified."

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        • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

          Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

          Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

          (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

          colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
          colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
          colorblindcowboy@mastodon.art
          wrote last edited by
          #15

          @grammargirl I’d avoid it because of the risk of misreading.

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          • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

            Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

            Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

            (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

            colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
            colorblindcowboy@mastodon.artC This user is from outside of this forum
            colorblindcowboy@mastodon.art
            wrote last edited by
            #16

            @grammargirl if we mean it will be signed in a hopeful manner than “The treaty will be signed with feelings of great hope for … “ would have more impact.

            If it’s hoped they’ll sign it, then why not say who hopes it?

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            • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

              Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

              Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

              (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

              christoff@yem.bouncingaroundtheroom.onlineC This user is from outside of this forum
              christoff@yem.bouncingaroundtheroom.onlineC This user is from outside of this forum
              christoff@yem.bouncingaroundtheroom.online
              wrote last edited by
              #17

              @grammargirl I tend to write like a speak, part of editing is "fixing" that loose narrative flow to being something people want to consume, perhaps.

              At this point though, I'd settle for anything that is purely and solely written by flesh and blood humans.

              It can feel like I'm constantly talking to humans via LLM middleman.

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              • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                lhauser@mefi.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                lhauser@mefi.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                lhauser@mefi.social
                wrote last edited by
                #18

                @grammargirl I'd use it, even though I'm pretty sure it's not right (the treaty, after all, is not hopeful).

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                • ramsey@phpc.socialR ramsey@phpc.social

                  @ApostateEnglishman @grammargirl I took it to be more about the use of the adverb and less about the content of the statement, but you’re right—it does give the impression that one is not very confident in the outcome.

                  apostateenglishman@mastodon.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                  apostateenglishman@mastodon.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                  apostateenglishman@mastodon.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #19

                  @ramsey @grammargirl Yeah, my creative writing was improved when I read that Stephen King almost never uses adverbs - one of the tricks behind his captivating prose style. He even said that "the road to Hell is paved with adverbs." 😆

                  Once you get into the habit of avoiding them, writing that uses them a lot ("Especially in dialogue attribution," added Martin wearily) becomes...jarring.

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                  • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                    Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                    Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                    (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                    overholt@glammr.usO This user is from outside of this forum
                    overholt@glammr.usO This user is from outside of this forum
                    overholt@glammr.us
                    wrote last edited by
                    #20

                    @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                    moss@beige.partyM grammargirl@zirk.usG climatejenny@biodiversity.socialC 3 Replies Last reply
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                    • overholt@glammr.usO overholt@glammr.us

                      @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                      moss@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                      moss@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                      moss@beige.party
                      wrote last edited by
                      #21

                      @overholt @grammargirl precisely, I was raised on Strunk and White, and it has taken me a long time to undo their rote strictures. I prefer now to write as I naturally speak, which honestly still comes across as stuffy. But yes I will use “hopefully” that way.

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                      • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                        Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                        Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                        (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                        mansr@society.oftrolls.comM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mansr@society.oftrolls.comM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mansr@society.oftrolls.com
                        wrote last edited by
                        #22

                        @grammargirl "The treaty will hopefully be ratified" or "the treaty will be hopefully ratified"? Best to avoid the ambiguity if the intent isn't clear from the context.

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                        • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                          Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                          Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                          (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                          sista_ray@bildung.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                          sista_ray@bildung.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                          sista_ray@bildung.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #23

                          @grammargirl

                          I know of the objections to this use of hopefully but I don't care. It feels natural to me. And I've just realised that German has "hoffentlich" for this use case and does not need to say "hoffnungsvoll" - possibly a word that English lost at some point?

                          timtfj@mastodon.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                            Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                            Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                            (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.net
                            wrote last edited by
                            #24

                            @grammargirl
                            If the treaty is feeling hopeful at the time of the ratification then it is correctly written; however, this should more likely be restated to clarify why the inanimate object is experiencing emotion. The parties to the thing might hopefully enter into an agreement.

                            mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.net

                              @grammargirl
                              If the treaty is feeling hopeful at the time of the ratification then it is correctly written; however, this should more likely be restated to clarify why the inanimate object is experiencing emotion. The parties to the thing might hopefully enter into an agreement.

                              mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                              mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.netM This user is from outside of this forum
                              mossyquartz@social.vivaldi.net
                              wrote last edited by
                              #25

                              @grammargirl
                              If you really want to keep the word and the comma then I'd be the reader scanning for context to understand what you mean, unless you'd add a few words. For example, Hopefully, I'm predicting the treaty will be ratified. That way, I'm understanding who it is who is feeling the hope.

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                              • overholt@glammr.usO overholt@glammr.us

                                @grammargirl That feels like a pedantry battle no one’s fighting anymore. It felt very old fashioned to me the first time I read it (Strunk & White?) decades ago.

                                grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                grammargirl@zirk.us
                                wrote last edited by
                                #26

                                @overholt That's what I thought (and hoped) too, but the comments across three networks are proving me wrong.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                                  Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                                  Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                                  (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                                  samupstate@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  samupstate@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  samupstate@hachyderm.io
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #27

                                  @grammargirl I think it would depend on the context though. I don't think I'd use it like that in anything remotely formal. But a post here, or maybe on my blog, sure.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                                    Would you use "hopefully" like this in a sentence:

                                    Hopefully, the treaty will be ratified.

                                    (I'm going to compare how people feel about this sentence today to an older survey that used the same sentence.)

                                    jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jessesheidlower@mastodon.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #28

                                    @grammargirl
                                    As I regularly report, when I ask my students about this (Ivy-League graduate writing students), for the last several years not a single one has even been aware of a "hopefully" controversy, let alone had an opinion on it.

                                    grammargirl@zirk.usG 2 Replies Last reply
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                                    • jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ jessesheidlower@mastodon.social

                                      @grammargirl
                                      As I regularly report, when I ask my students about this (Ivy-League graduate writing students), for the last several years not a single one has even been aware of a "hopefully" controversy, let alone had an opinion on it.

                                      grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      grammargirl@zirk.us
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #29

                                      @jessesheidlower That's what I had expected to find!

                                      jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • grammargirl@zirk.usG grammargirl@zirk.us

                                        @jessesheidlower That's what I had expected to find!

                                        jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        jessesheidlower@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #30

                                        @grammargirl
                                        The people who respond to such queries, or who complain to news organizations about the purported misuse of shibboleths, are a very, very, very tiny proportion of language users.

                                        grammargirl@zirk.usG 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • jessesheidlower@mastodon.socialJ jessesheidlower@mastodon.social

                                          @grammargirl
                                          As I regularly report, when I ask my students about this (Ivy-League graduate writing students), for the last several years not a single one has even been aware of a "hopefully" controversy, let alone had an opinion on it.

                                          grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          grammargirl@zirk.usG This user is from outside of this forum
                                          grammargirl@zirk.us
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #31

                                          @jessesheidlower I'm kind of trying to recreate the most recent survey Garner said he did, but I'm using the sentence from AHD surveys and tried to frame it in a less leading way than Garner.

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