Doing some basic math on tuition in Ontario for this week's course on the history of the university.
-
One other thing: these tuition figures are for the arts from 1972 and for the humanities from 2007. Some programs charge(d) much more.
I'm still waiting for someone to write a sequel to Paul Axelrod's seminal Scholars and Dollars: Politics, Economics, and the Universities of Ontario, 1945-1980. I'd really rather that someone not be me. So go on, do us all a favour and write it already!
-
@brian_gettler Oh, I didn't mean to add to your work load!
I'm genuinely interested in what you're putting together though. If you have easy access to any numbers like cost of living to put tuition into context, I'll be very interested.
@ShaulaEvans No worries. I needed to do the contextual work to help my students understand the numbers anyway. I've added some stuff to the thread that may be of interest.
-
@brian_gettler roughly 12 weeks pay, or 1/4 of a year, vs 100 weeks or almost 2 years.
In other words, the difference between being able to afford to pay your own way through school without debt, and not.
@chris Just don't forget: international students are to blame for everything.
-
International tuition vs minimum wage:
In 1972-73, for most of the school year, minimum wage in Ontario was $1.65. Since international tuition was $578, one would have to work 350 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of university.
In 2022-23, minimum wage for most of the school year was $15.50. That year international tuition was $45,647, meaning one would have to work 2,945 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of university.
@brian_gettler The same thing has happened in America.
-
@brian_gettler roughly 12 weeks pay, or 1/4 of a year, vs 100 weeks or almost 2 years.
In other words, the difference between being able to afford to pay your own way through school without debt, and not.
A full summer job would cover tuition — but not living expenses. Of course, those were lower then, too.
-
@brian_gettler roughly 12 weeks pay, or 1/4 of a year, vs 100 weeks or almost 2 years.
In other words, the difference between being able to afford to pay your own way through school without debt, and not.
@chris @brian_gettler In addition, international students are limited to working for pay 24 hours per week while in Canada. And they are not allowed to carry hours over. So if a student works a part time job only 12 hours per week during the school year (because, y'know, SCHOOL) they can still not exceed 24 hours per week during term breaks.
So now it is closer to working 4 years to earn enough to pay 1 year of school.
-
International tuition vs minimum wage:
In 1972-73, for most of the school year, minimum wage in Ontario was $1.65. Since international tuition was $578, one would have to work 350 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of university.
In 2022-23, minimum wage for most of the school year was $15.50. That year international tuition was $45,647, meaning one would have to work 2,945 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of university.
@brian_gettler Wow! That puts the increase in a new light. Thank you.
-
@ShaulaEvans No worries. I needed to do the contextual work to help my students understand the numbers anyway. I've added some stuff to the thread that may be of interest.
@brian_gettler Very much of interest! Thank you for letting me know.
-
Here are a few contextual tidbits:
Domestic tuition vs minimum wage:
In 1972-73, for most of the school year, minimum wage in Ontario was $1.65. Since domestic tuition was $579, one would have to work 351 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of university.
In 2022-23, minimum wage for most of the school year was $15.50. That year domestic tuition was $5,801, meaning one would have to work 374 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of university.
@brian_gettler That domestic tuition of $5,801 for 2022 doesn't seem right. I've only been looking for the 2026 year, so I guess prices have increased over the past 4 years, but $5,801 looks closer to the cost of 1 term instead of full year. Assuming it's not one of the deregulated programs -- which itself is a major change versus decades ago.
I just went to check U of T costs (which, admittedly is probably not representative of the average). I'm a little shocked to see they charge both a program fee plus a fee per course. That really adds up.
-
I'm still waiting for someone to write a sequel to Paul Axelrod's seminal Scholars and Dollars: Politics, Economics, and the Universities of Ontario, 1945-1980. I'd really rather that someone not be me. So go on, do us all a favour and write it already!
@brian_gettler I was an undergrad and student activist when Axelrod's book was published, and my copy is still on my bookshelf. I am now an undergrad again*, 40 years later, and it seems that every trend he identified (plummeting public funding, loss of accessibility, offloading of costs to students) has predictably continued. Definitely needs an update -- if you decide to write it I will be amongst the first in line to buy a copy.
_______
* post-career undergrad -- this time I study for fun. -
@brian_gettler That domestic tuition of $5,801 for 2022 doesn't seem right. I've only been looking for the 2026 year, so I guess prices have increased over the past 4 years, but $5,801 looks closer to the cost of 1 term instead of full year. Assuming it's not one of the deregulated programs -- which itself is a major change versus decades ago.
I just went to check U of T costs (which, admittedly is probably not representative of the average). I'm a little shocked to see they charge both a program fee plus a fee per course. That really adds up.
@brian_gettler I suspect the really informative angle is to supplement this with showing provincial university funding per student. Based on what I've read, it's plummeted over the decades. And it's a nice simple metric that should be easy to compare.
-
A full summer job would cover tuition — but not living expenses. Of course, those were lower then, too.
-
I can confirm my tuition for 1969-1973 at Laurentian University was $500 (aprox) a year. HBA in Political Science.
-
R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
-
A full summer job would cover tuition — but not living expenses. Of course, those were lower then, too.
@hamishb @chris @brian_gettler
Yes — I went to UofT during the 80s, and my minimum wage summer job would just barely cover full tuition plus textbooks.I’ve found people my age who complain that kids today should just ‘do what we did’ are completely resistant to basic math when I’ve tried to explain that it’s literally impossible.
-
@hamishb @chris @brian_gettler
Yes — I went to UofT during the 80s, and my minimum wage summer job would just barely cover full tuition plus textbooks.I’ve found people my age who complain that kids today should just ‘do what we did’ are completely resistant to basic math when I’ve tried to explain that it’s literally impossible.
@jvschrag @hamishb @chris @brian_gettler UofT '90s, here. Got a full-time *union* job one summer which paid for the following year. Any other year, impossible, even then. Ridiculously worse now.
-
R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
