"FOSS maintainers are unpaid and don't have the resources to manage large open source projects, they _have_ to use AI to get anything done."
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"FOSS maintainers are unpaid and don't have the resources to manage large open source projects, they _have_ to use AI to get anything done."
I've seen this take a couple of times in recent weeks, and I've got two things to say about it:
1. We've been able to manage large open source projects for decades in the past, without LLMs.
2. Ever thought about how there may be a connection between "FOSS is unpaid" and capitalism producing trillion-dollar AI companies and more and more billionaires?
@scy
Brillant analysis! -
@tiotasram I tend to agree but disagree partially:
1. Some woodworking tasks are actually faster done by hand than the setup time involved for a power tool (think: CNC mills), especially for one-off projects.
2. Bespoke furniture is always something that needs to be adapted to the specific use case anyway, so 1:1 copies are seldomly possible. That's currently the main reason why cabinetmakers can make a living outside of big furniture factories. Quality comes through skill and practice.@daniel_bohrer @tiotasram @scy I am starting to think of this in terms of programming (craft) done by organic/biological organisms vs. programming (slop) mass-produced by automated machinery with horrible side-effects on ecosystems. Just like it happened in the agriculture/food sector.
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"FOSS maintainers are unpaid and don't have the resources to manage large open source projects, they _have_ to use AI to get anything done."
I've seen this take a couple of times in recent weeks, and I've got two things to say about it:
1. We've been able to manage large open source projects for decades in the past, without LLMs.
2. Ever thought about how there may be a connection between "FOSS is unpaid" and capitalism producing trillion-dollar AI companies and more and more billionaires?
@scy Wow, that (the thing you're quoting) is an utterly ridiculous take by someone trying to speak for us with no idea what we actually do or care about.
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@scy I've been happily woodworking without most machinery for the last few years in my free time. Table saws and routers and jigsaws are just too loud and dusty and dangerous and impersonal for my taste. I see a connection there.
@daniel_bohrer @scy Completely valid, but table saws and routers and jigs are still tools. They're things that a skilled user can apply to their craft to get a predictable result.
LLMs are not such a tool. They're a way to replace the creative part of your craft with a sloppy, lossy copy of somebody else's work and avoid crediting them.
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@scy Wow, that (the thing you're quoting) is an utterly ridiculous take by someone trying to speak for us with no idea what we actually do or care about.
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@scy Wow, that (the thing you're quoting) is an utterly ridiculous take by someone trying to speak for us with no idea what we actually do or care about.
@dalias It took me a few moments to realize that you're not talking about me
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@dalias It took me a few moments to realize that you're not talking about me
@scy Oh, sorry! Edited to clarify.
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@scy Oh, sorry! Edited to clarify.
@dalias Thanks
That wasn't necessary, but I appreciate it nevertheless. 
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@dalias Thanks
That wasn't necessary, but I appreciate it nevertheless. @scy Well I don't want others who can't see your post because they don't federate your instance or whatever to think badly of you because you're the person @'d.
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"FOSS maintainers are unpaid and don't have the resources to manage large open source projects, they _have_ to use AI to get anything done."
I've seen this take a couple of times in recent weeks, and I've got two things to say about it:
1. We've been able to manage large open source projects for decades in the past, without LLMs.
2. Ever thought about how there may be a connection between "FOSS is unpaid" and capitalism producing trillion-dollar AI companies and more and more billionaires?
@scy If your unpaid hobby become overwhelming it might've become an unpaid job. That's not a problem of FOSS, but of capitalism.
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@daniel_bohrer @scy Completely valid, but table saws and routers and jigs are still tools. They're things that a skilled user can apply to their craft to get a predictable result.
LLMs are not such a tool. They're a way to replace the creative part of your craft with a sloppy, lossy copy of somebody else's work and avoid crediting them.
@dalias @daniel_bohrer @scy If your hobby is wood working you wouldn't use a robot that builds a perfect table from scratch at the press of a button.
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@dalias @daniel_bohrer @scy If your hobby is wood working you wouldn't use a robot that builds a perfect table from scratch at the press of a button.
@Datenproletarier @daniel_bohrer @scy I mean you might if you designed the process yourself and programmed the robot to do it. That's what some of us do with plastic and 3D printers, or with CNC lathes/mills and metal. And it's very much a craft.
The problem is not that the "AI" is making "perfect" output that doesn't involve manual work. It's that it's just haphazardly mixing lossy copies of other people's designs with no care for whether or how they meet any actual technocal requirement or expressive goal a person might have. This is rather the opposite of "perfect".
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"FOSS maintainers are unpaid and don't have the resources to manage large open source projects, they _have_ to use AI to get anything done."
I've seen this take a couple of times in recent weeks, and I've got two things to say about it:
1. We've been able to manage large open source projects for decades in the past, without LLMs.
2. Ever thought about how there may be a connection between "FOSS is unpaid" and capitalism producing trillion-dollar AI companies and more and more billionaires?
@scy There is also some disconnect between "they are not getting paid" and "therefore they have to use a technology they have to pay for"
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@zaire @scy what if executive dysfunction scales, so to say, and happens for a variety of reasons, including even the most basic lack of confidence in the subject? what if ADHD is more prevalent in one way or another, and we conservatively threshold our belief of what is productive and appropriate use of ADHD medication — just because we need it to overlap with the threshold for when we call it ADHD? (and I, of course, meant appropriate dosages rather than abuse)
I will not speak specifically on defining the LLM psychosis because I miss too many aspects of it when I try; maybe if someday I'll read any research. -
@Datenproletarier @daniel_bohrer @scy I mean you might if you designed the process yourself and programmed the robot to do it. That's what some of us do with plastic and 3D printers, or with CNC lathes/mills and metal. And it's very much a craft.
The problem is not that the "AI" is making "perfect" output that doesn't involve manual work. It's that it's just haphazardly mixing lossy copies of other people's designs with no care for whether or how they meet any actual technocal requirement or expressive goal a person might have. This is rather the opposite of "perfect".
@dalias @Datenproletarier @scy I guess every metaphor falls apart when you dissect it enough. I just saw parallels there.
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"FOSS maintainers are unpaid and don't have the resources to manage large open source projects, they _have_ to use AI to get anything done."
I've seen this take a couple of times in recent weeks, and I've got two things to say about it:
1. We've been able to manage large open source projects for decades in the past, without LLMs.
2. Ever thought about how there may be a connection between "FOSS is unpaid" and capitalism producing trillion-dollar AI companies and more and more billionaires?
@scy somehow, if you need software that supports some completely obscure architecture, it is always open source.
We maintain shit nobody else cares to touch. That should be proof more than enough to show we really don't *need* help. We'll take it, but on our own terms.
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@zaire @mi @scy you cant abuse substances , substances are not people, substances do not have a way they want to be treated.
they can be used to abuse people (i.e if you like sneak it into their food or something) .. but they cant be abused
though im still not sure what the heck AI has to do with ADHD medication or 'the war on drugs' bullshit in general
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