Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable.
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@futurebird By my recollection, the evidence that Iran made plans to build nuclear weapons all dates from _after_ G. W. Bush threatened them with nuclear bombardment.
@futurebird IMHO, the 'why' has a lot to do with Iran being an energy exporter at a time when the US exports a great deal of energy and also seized control of Venezuelan exports. It makes Russian & Saudi exports more valuable as well.
But also, a reason why Trumpists want to nix intl law & human rights is bc bodies like the UN refused to lie about Iraq & Iran nuclear inspections. They desperately want working class people to accept the lies and fight each other.
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Most people are not paying attention. I think they have realized that.
But we could change this I think.
@futurebird @FediThing it was pretty clear the negotiations didn't yield the results the admin expected though (realistic or not), so many people are unsurprised by the escalation, and certainly the iranian gov isn't either.
recent events globally made it clear nukes are the only real garantee of not being attacked (ukraine/russia, but also the dprk), and everyone who doesn't have them certainly want them now.
my only hope is that this get rid of this terrible regime and make the iranian free
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I think I'm being gaslit by the media into feeling like this is too complicated for me to understand when it's really very simple. Nothing the US is doing is about pursuing peace, or making the lives of any ordinary person in any country especially the US any better.
These guys are excited to have control of the US military and all of that power and are just making up excuses to do things with it.
There is no justification. No benefit.
@futurebird More than a century ago, the US military was already powerful enough that Theodore Roosevelt could simply "speak softly and carry a big stick". One might expect the country to not need actually going to war as often! Maybe it's simply a matter of justifying military expenditure, ie making more money flow to contractors
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80 years of the US "interventions" and losing every time hasn't taught most Americans anything yet...
@futurebird Yes you are being gaslit---you are not naive
@SnowyCA it seems to be a "favorite passtime" of imperialist superpowers, just like russia and CCP China.
@rood @futurebird yes, they're trying to gaslight everyone left and right, so people only in as small numbers as possible ask their leaders why the heck they're doing what they're doing and ask for consequences. The US used a base in my country to fly the planes that carried this attack over the Atlantic and our Government said "we have a deal and the US can use the base as they wish, without requesting anything before they do" (which is false, the agreement has the same exact terms as the UK one, and the UK used the agreement to deny passage to the planes involved in this act of international terrorism). -
OK but when you start there someone pops out from behind a tree and calls you an unamerican peace-nick.
And then, because I am very anti-war and probably a peace-nick or whatever that gives me pause and by then they have started six more wars.
Why does "you hippie, you want the US to be weak" shut down the conversation? What they are doing still makes no sense. Even if you love nonsense like "the strategic application of force."
@futurebird "Do you want US to we weak?" Say fucking YES.
You are not intelligent enough to understand the realities of those not strong enough, you are impotent with all your 'strength' of solving inequality, of stopping racism, of helping minorities, of healthing the planet? Then you maybe need to know "weakness", which will give you empathy, careness, responsibility, which will give you real STRENGTH, not some bully wet dream. -
Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable. Russia, North Korea, the US...
Is "this country might get a powerful bomb, possibly maybe later, we swear to God it's real this time" a good reason to attack them? Is anyone buying this at all?
I think attacking a country gives them more reasons to make bigger bombs and ... attack back?
Am I too naive to understand international politics?
@futurebird Israel has nuclear weapons, too.
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@SnowyCA it seems to be a "favorite passtime" of imperialist superpowers, just like russia and CCP China.
@rood @futurebird yes, they're trying to gaslight everyone left and right, so people only in as small numbers as possible ask their leaders why the heck they're doing what they're doing and ask for consequences. The US used a base in my country to fly the planes that carried this attack over the Atlantic and our Government said "we have a deal and the US can use the base as they wish, without requesting anything before they do" (which is false, the agreement has the same exact terms as the UK one, and the UK used the agreement to deny passage to the planes involved in this act of international terrorism).@jt_rebelo
I'm so sorry they did not stand up to the bully.
I agree the US is the same as Russia and China, especially as a propagandist within it's own country--the American Dream was always nonsense along with American Exceptionalism, morally speaking that is. -
I think I'm being gaslit by the media into feeling like this is too complicated for me to understand when it's really very simple. Nothing the US is doing is about pursuing peace, or making the lives of any ordinary person in any country especially the US any better.
These guys are excited to have control of the US military and all of that power and are just making up excuses to do things with it.
There is no justification. No benefit.
.. nobody expected the spanisch inquisition ..
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@FediThing @futurebird yeah, it's kinda obvious that if your goal is to have less nuclear weapons, then this is not the right move. quite clearly so.
when was Iran furthest from nuclear weapons? during JCPOA. when was it closest to nuclear weapons? after being attacked by Israel and the US last time.
this isn't a strategic move. it's a power move. transparently so. -
Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable. Russia, North Korea, the US...
Is "this country might get a powerful bomb, possibly maybe later, we swear to God it's real this time" a good reason to attack them? Is anyone buying this at all?
I think attacking a country gives them more reasons to make bigger bombs and ... attack back?
Am I too naive to understand international politics?
@futurebird you are not too naïve! You're one of the most down to earth people. What you're describing is an arms race. The US/EU are just gaslighting their people to imply its not.
You don't bomb your way to peace.
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@futurebird IMHO, the 'why' has a lot to do with Iran being an energy exporter at a time when the US exports a great deal of energy and also seized control of Venezuelan exports. It makes Russian & Saudi exports more valuable as well.
But also, a reason why Trumpists want to nix intl law & human rights is bc bodies like the UN refused to lie about Iraq & Iran nuclear inspections. They desperately want working class people to accept the lies and fight each other.
-
I think I'm being gaslit by the media into feeling like this is too complicated for me to understand when it's really very simple. Nothing the US is doing is about pursuing peace, or making the lives of any ordinary person in any country especially the US any better.
These guys are excited to have control of the US military and all of that power and are just making up excuses to do things with it.
There is no justification. No benefit.
@futurebird we think there is a benefit to them. Israel wants to subjugate the only regional power that still opposes them since the Arab states have fallen in line with US imperialism. the US government wants to keep Israel tied to them so they show that they will support their warmongering. it also serves as a distraction from internal conflicts in the US as always. also capitalists get to fill their already stuffed pockets further with weapon sales. gotta keep them happy.
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"follow the money" is often a good way to understand the truth.
But I don't even think this makes sense from that standpoint. Not totally.
This is more like what would happen if you gave me a big box of fireworks and told me to "keep them safe"
After a few weeks you'd hear the cracks and booms of me setting them off just to see what happened.
only, this is a lot less fun.
@futurebird @darkling I believe there are many factors at work. Yes, there is the hind-brain, emotional high of "We have power now, let's show it off!"
But there's also "Why do people in my country not understand I'm saving them? I should explain it louder."
And all the rationalizations: "But Iran is a bad guy! They might get dangerous!" and "We need to demonstrate power so people will know how strong we are!"
And the unstated motivations: "If we're at war, we can declare a state of emergency and force the country to vote for us. We have the power, so we must be the good guys, and what we want is obviously good for everyone, therefore it's in everyone's best interest for us to control everything forever." and "Israel has good ideas!" and "It feels good when I can be mean to people and they can't fight back."
Ick. I'm not sure "uncomfortable" really captures my level of nausea and worry after writing this.
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Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable. Russia, North Korea, the US...
Is "this country might get a powerful bomb, possibly maybe later, we swear to God it's real this time" a good reason to attack them? Is anyone buying this at all?
I think attacking a country gives them more reasons to make bigger bombs and ... attack back?
Am I too naive to understand international politics?
Rumor:
During "Operation Sindoor", where India struck military bases in Pakistan, they discovered that the USA had nukes at those bases, ostensibly pointed at China. For India, this is the equivalent of the Bay of Pigs.Modi & Trump are right-wing-strongmen allies. Modi has kept this shocking revelation quiet. If Indians knew, Modi's government would fall, for selling India out to American Billionaires.
Largest strike:
India’s historic strike challenges Modi’s pro-US, pro-corporate laws
India's sovereignty is cracking under Modi's divisive policies and the working class, unafraid and unwavering, is reclaiming their nation
Canary (www.thecanary.co)
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I think I'm being gaslit by the media into feeling like this is too complicated for me to understand when it's really very simple. Nothing the US is doing is about pursuing peace, or making the lives of any ordinary person in any country especially the US any better.
These guys are excited to have control of the US military and all of that power and are just making up excuses to do things with it.
There is no justification. No benefit.
@futurebird There was an interview about Iran on Fresh Air the other day, and Terri Gross was very seriously discussing with her guest the potential reasons why the U.S. might attack Iran, and I was yelling at the radio, "All these reasons are bullshit! It's because Trump is a psychopath! Why the fuck aren't you discussing _that_?" It's absolutely maddening.
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Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable. Russia, North Korea, the US...
Is "this country might get a powerful bomb, possibly maybe later, we swear to God it's real this time" a good reason to attack them? Is anyone buying this at all?
I think attacking a country gives them more reasons to make bigger bombs and ... attack back?
Am I too naive to understand international politics?
It's pretty much the same gobshite nonsense that was used by the US and the UK to justify their illegal invasion of Iraq 2003.
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@futurebird There was an interview about Iran on Fresh Air the other day, and Terri Gross was very seriously discussing with her guest the potential reasons why the U.S. might attack Iran, and I was yelling at the radio, "All these reasons are bullshit! It's because Trump is a psychopath! Why the fuck aren't you discussing _that_?" It's absolutely maddening.
@jik @futurebird he is plotting to go into his bunker and unleash his private Nazi paramilitaries when it's time to leave the WH
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I think I'm being gaslit by the media into feeling like this is too complicated for me to understand when it's really very simple. Nothing the US is doing is about pursuing peace, or making the lives of any ordinary person in any country especially the US any better.
These guys are excited to have control of the US military and all of that power and are just making up excuses to do things with it.
There is no justification. No benefit.
@futurebird "These guys are excited to have control of the US military and all of that power and are just making up excuses to do things with it."
THIS. TOTALLY. Not only is it not well-intentioned benevolence, it isn't even competent amoral imperialist realpolitik. It's a schoolyard bully's idea of what imperialism would look like. Real American imperialists like James K. Polk, William McKinley, and Henry Kissinger would be appalled at the squandering of resources and of the good will of allies for no gain.
This is the exact opposite of making America great.
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Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable. Russia, North Korea, the US...
Is "this country might get a powerful bomb, possibly maybe later, we swear to God it's real this time" a good reason to attack them? Is anyone buying this at all?
I think attacking a country gives them more reasons to make bigger bombs and ... attack back?
Am I too naive to understand international politics?
@futurebird the “death to america” people will definitely change their tune after this, right?
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Many countries have nuclear weapons and all of them make me uncomfortable. Russia, North Korea, the US...
Is "this country might get a powerful bomb, possibly maybe later, we swear to God it's real this time" a good reason to attack them? Is anyone buying this at all?
I think attacking a country gives them more reasons to make bigger bombs and ... attack back?
Am I too naive to understand international politics?
@futurebird honestly my feeling is that for the good of the planet and for our self preservation, every country should disarm and dispose of all nuclear weapons. I know this is unlikely. And is probably just as unlikely that we disarm of other nuclear-related arms that may have similarly ecologically devastating potential effects, like depleted uranium.
There are many devastating weapons that can have decades long effects on land and environment. Mines for example. We know that in war making, soldiers and leaders can completely destroy everyone's access to large swaths of land, and still we allow people to make war, somehow justifying it by saying that differences were insurmountable.
I think the existence of non-war diplomacy and generations of achievements by diplomats proves that wars and genocide are not inevitable. But we persist in allowing the worst people (murderers, child sexual abusers, and cannibals, if we can believe even a fraction of papers released by the US department of "Justice" lately) have control over deployment of the worst weapons.
I think the biggest threat is already in the countries who already have nukes. Claiming that it's external is just another lie to keep threat of revolution controlled and suppressed.
