I know 8 trans people well and many more as acquaintances.
-
In decades of knowing trans people in being in places that are more accepting of trans and LGBTQ people I've never once had someone say "how dare you misgender me" though if someone had I don't know if that would matter, it's just nothing like what people expect and fear.
No one is pole dancing. I do not live in a gay pride parade.
I'm a Christian, I go to church now and then. I'm inwardly kind of prudish and I don't even like being around people swearing much.
@futurebird
> I've never once had someone say "how dare you misgender me"Because usually it goes like that:
X: insistently on purpose misgenders Y, adding a bunch of transphobic shit.
Y: "could you please not misgender me?"
X: doubles down on misgendering, adds even more transphobic shit.
Y: "COULD YOU PLEASE NOT"
X: triples down.
Y: "you're asshole", and leaves (if possible)
X, later: "ah, these trans people, they always say "how dare you misgender me"" -
I know 8 trans people well and many more as acquaintances. The 8 people I know well range from being an old childhood friend, to coworkers, to students, to neighbors.
I'm mostly aware that they are trans at all due to the increase in anti-trans laws and blatant transphobia in the US. Were it not for that I might not know or even care. But I worry about them.
In each case the fact that they are trans is one of the less interesting things I know about them.
@futurebird This makes me think of the trans guy I had no idea was trans until his wife wrote a book entitled When My Boyfriend Was a Girl. I just knew him as a nice Cat Dad.
-
In decades of knowing trans people in being in places that are more accepting of trans and LGBTQ people I've never once had someone say "how dare you misgender me" though if someone had I don't know if that would matter, it's just nothing like what people expect and fear.
No one is pole dancing. I do not live in a gay pride parade.
I'm a Christian, I go to church now and then. I'm inwardly kind of prudish and I don't even like being around people swearing much.
@futurebird
In my experience, LGBTQ people and their allies want it to be illegal to express yourself in a way that offends them, including misgendering.
Maybe it's different on your side of the pond. -
@futurebird I think there is an element of a fear of having to give some of their culture/identity, which gets tough. Patriarchy is deeply embedded in certain cultures and identities, often people want their kids to follow their 'lineage' or worse even be them or better thems. Being trans messes with that, it -can- destroy these notions and expectations of the patriarchal culture, I feel people are worries about giving up that bit of their identity/culture.
@wmd
Not trying to cause trouble, genuinely curious:
What is wrong with wanting your kids to be better versions of yourself?
I mean, I agree forcing them to copy you is abusive. But that's only one way to do it.
You can also gently guide them, and if you don't succeed, c'est la vie.
@futurebird -
I mean, fishes change gender as part of their natural life cycle; frogs can as well; many animals are hermaphrodites; some are gynandromorphs; homosexuallity is very common (double-digit percent) in a number of mammals and birds, inclusive of the rearing of chicks. Beyond vertebrates, there’s even more variation. As a biologist, these debates are bizarre, because all that matters is that the population persists over time, and individuals contribute what they want or can to that success. And being nice to each other sure smooths everyday life, increasing chances of success. We are all in it together, here on spaceship Earth.
@albertcardona
No hermaphrodites or gynandromorphs are mammals though.
I don't see how that makes humans being transgender more "natural".
But of course we should all be nice to each other. There's no doubt about that.
@futurebird -
@wmd
Not trying to cause trouble, genuinely curious:
What is wrong with wanting your kids to be better versions of yourself?
I mean, I agree forcing them to copy you is abusive. But that's only one way to do it.
You can also gently guide them, and if you don't succeed, c'est la vie.
@futurebird@light @futurebird problem can be seen in the oft abused? "I just want you to be happy". Who gets to decide what that means? Or maybe they have other priorities, like being or surviving. You can offer them (more) options, but at some point they can make choices you might not understand but still need to respect.
-
@albertcardona @futurebird bigots are all "but biology!" and I'm like yeah, exactly, biology! If you get past what they teach five year olds, it shows us that humans are all the same basic model with a few tweaks in one direction or the other, and lots of overlapping variation.
@jetlagjen @albertcardona @futurebird
“Exactly, Biology!”I was raised by a microbiologist, so I could have some biases. There are a number of things I hear in those conjectures. If they claim logic or numbers —tell me the difference between a sample and a population. How would you use a ratio to evaluate the relative scale of any factor?
If they appeal to religion, you get that nature always brings diversity? Or are you claiming the gods did it wrong? -
@futurebird
In my experience, LGBTQ people and their allies want it to be illegal to express yourself in a way that offends them, including misgendering.
Maybe it's different on your side of the pond.With an online conversation it's hard to know if someone who disagrees with you is being sincere or not.
"LGBTQ people and their allies want it to be illegal to express yourself"
There are always limits to expression. If I decide I don't want to call you by your name, but I feel that "Sealion" is a better name for you, I could get in trouble at work or at school for doing that after you object... because it's rude.
-
@futurebird
I have to admit, I don't currently work and I haven't been in school for ages. I'm still rebuilding my life. So I can't really comment on that last point. But I reckon it's probably different in those circumstances than in society as a whole. But still, https://qoto.org/@light/116217402058880799Yes, I sincerely believe in freedom of speech. Is there a problem with that? Does that make me a "sea lion"? What even is a "sea lion"? Someone who asks questions? What's wrong with asking questions? Curiosity and debate are good things.
Do you also have this attitude with your students?
@futurebird -
With an online conversation it's hard to know if someone who disagrees with you is being sincere or not.
"LGBTQ people and their allies want it to be illegal to express yourself"
There are always limits to expression. If I decide I don't want to call you by your name, but I feel that "Sealion" is a better name for you, I could get in trouble at work or at school for doing that after you object... because it's rude.
@futurebird
I have to admit, I don't currently work and I haven't been in school for ages. I'm still rebuilding my life. So I can't really comment on that last point. But I reckon it's probably different in those circumstances than in society as a whole. But still, https://qoto.org/@light/116217402058880799 -
@futurebird
I have to admit, I don't currently work and I haven't been in school for ages. I'm still rebuilding my life. So I can't really comment on that last point. But I reckon it's probably different in those circumstances than in society as a whole. But still, https://qoto.org/@light/116217402058880799@futurebird
Also, it's not rude to state a fact so long as you're not rubbing it in. -
Yes, I sincerely believe in freedom of speech. Is there a problem with that? Does that make me a "sea lion"? What even is a "sea lion"? Someone who asks questions? What's wrong with asking questions? Curiosity and debate are good things.
Do you also have this attitude with your students?
@futurebirdIf you have a job and you boss is named "Jane" but you decide you'd rather call her "Debbie" since you think she looks more like a Debbie than a "Jane" and you also decide you'd rather only speak to her by singing... well is it "against free speech" if she fires you for being annoying and not treating her with respect?
-
@futurebird
Also, it's not rude to state a fact so long as you're not rubbing it in.This isn't about "free speech" at all. You should treat all people with basic human respect. If you don't wish to do that you may find that people don't want to be around you or work with you.
-
I sometimes want to just explain to the bigots, this could all be very normal if you'd stop huffing bigoted media and get to know someone who was trans. It's just like ... a hormone imbalance that can be treated. It's like being mad at people for having red hair. If only you knew how boring this could be, how normal. How easy to forget that they are trans.
And I could just forget, if it weren't for the bigotry and the threats to their safety.
@futurebird but they don't want it to be normal, they want to be bullying somebody
-
@futurebird
Also, it's not rude to state a fact so long as you're not rubbing it in. -
This isn't about "free speech" at all. You should treat all people with basic human respect. If you don't wish to do that you may find that people don't want to be around you or work with you.
@futurebird That's fine. But police action backed up by violence is something entirely different and you know it.
-
@futurebird That's fine. But police action backed up by violence is something entirely different and you know it.
@light @futurebird yeah man the police are notorious for beating people down for being rude to trans people they're just great allies like that
-
With an online conversation it's hard to know if someone who disagrees with you is being sincere or not.
"LGBTQ people and their allies want it to be illegal to express yourself"
There are always limits to expression. If I decide I don't want to call you by your name, but I feel that "Sealion" is a better name for you, I could get in trouble at work or at school for doing that after you object... because it's rude.
@futurebird it was
-
It already exists in little pockets, it works better than the alternatives. It's spreading.
Maybe things are going to get worse before they get better but I believe in and want the future where being trans is boring.
The best reaction my wife and I had to telling someone I was transgender was a heartfelt "is that all?"
-
Patriarchy lets predators run wild. At this point I think it's basically designed to do that. You hear right wingers making so much noise about protecting children, but let that child be "imperfect" in any way ?
So upset about the exploitation of the innocent, yet no one is innocent enough to be a victim worth listening to.
"she's a disturbed woman with a long criminal history"
Said the press secratary about one of the Epstein file accusers.
