Framework listens to their audience so much that they send another pre-release laptop to DHH.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera I see, yes I agree, I wish they hadn't, however I understand the structural necessity of capitalist participation leading to them trying to take advantage of omarchy's popularity to push laptop sales.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
that is normalising and accepting someone with a large platform that is spewing racist and facist speech. If capitalism trumps their morals, then their morals is shit.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera Nirav, the CEO, has explicitly said he supports immigrants and LGBTQ rights, on twitter. Won't link that awful site but a quick search should turn it up.
So imo I wonder to what degree our expectations for framework change since it's a socially conscious company, vs a known-systemic-evil like dell.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera well, saying they support queer people while sending a laptop to a transphobic hater is a bit of double speech. I'd be happier if I could see them sending laptops to queer engineers as well.
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@noodlejetski @soapdog sure they could, I am just clarifying they are not only supporting that particular project as the parent poster mentioned.
@tsdgeos @noodlejetski which I agree with you that is better than supporting only that project, but still, I'd rather they didn't platform a fascist.
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@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera well, saying they support queer people while sending a laptop to a transphobic hater is a bit of double speech. I'd be happier if I could see them sending laptops to queer engineers as well.
@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
They send laptops to all the other main distros and DEs, and their 5k/year donation to Arch is functionally a direct payment to the trans community lol. They also donate thousands to debian, cachy, bazzite, nix, the bsds, kde, etc. They don't send any money directly to omarchy, unlike these other DEs and distros.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
They send laptops to all the other main distros and DEs, and their 5k/year donation to Arch is functionally a direct payment to the trans community lol. They also donate thousands to debian, cachy, bazzite, nix, the bsds, kde, etc. They don't send any money directly to omarchy, unlike these other DEs and distros.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
I think that is great, really.
But doing that doesn't offload the fact that they are sending devices to an individual who is a known fascist. They could simply not send it. Simple as that. Don't send DHH a device, he can buy a device if he wants it.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
They send laptops to all the other main distros and DEs, and their 5k/year donation to Arch is functionally a direct payment to the trans community lol. They also donate thousands to debian, cachy, bazzite, nix, the bsds, kde, etc. They don't send any money directly to omarchy, unlike these other DEs and distros.
@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera it's a sad reality but the true reality is they didn't send a laptop to DHH because he's a POS transphobe, they sent a laptop to the Omarchy lead dev because it's a very popular "distro" that for whatever reason all the content creators are focusing on, so a great entry point for new laptop buyers.
Just more sad realities under capitalism.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera it's a sad reality but the true reality is they didn't send a laptop to DHH because he's a POS transphobe, they sent a laptop to the Omarchy lead dev because it's a very popular "distro" that for whatever reason all the content creators are focusing on, so a great entry point for new laptop buyers.
Just more sad realities under capitalism.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
again, that normalisation of fascism is dangerous.
They can make sure it runs with Omarchy. They don't need to platform DHH, he is a fascist. Being a maintainer doesn't offload that.
Treating fascists well because they happen to be productive fascists is not good enough.
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@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera well, saying they support queer people while sending a laptop to a transphobic hater is a bit of double speech. I'd be happier if I could see them sending laptops to queer engineers as well.
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Framework listens to their audience so much that they send another pre-release laptop to DHH.
Enjoy the new Nazibook 13 pro.
@alatiera man, we can't have nice things smh...
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@smilingdemon @soapdog @Foxboron @alatiera yes, in this case, it would, and I agree and I wish they would.
There is the reality though that the FOSS ecosystem is FULL of people like DHH, DHH just happens to be very famous. "Just don't engage with bad people" is hard in this ecosystem.
My take is, we're holding good actors to high standards, bad actors (dell etc) to low standards, leaving good actors to face risk of disqualification and putting selection pressure in favor of bad actors.
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@smilingdemon @soapdog @Foxboron @alatiera yes, in this case, it would, and I agree and I wish they would.
There is the reality though that the FOSS ecosystem is FULL of people like DHH, DHH just happens to be very famous. "Just don't engage with bad people" is hard in this ecosystem.
My take is, we're holding good actors to high standards, bad actors (dell etc) to low standards, leaving good actors to face risk of disqualification and putting selection pressure in favor of bad actors.
@smilingdemon @soapdog @Foxboron @alatiera I mean until very recently Linus Torvalds himself was an absolutely morally repugnant and verbally abusive individual.
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@smilingdemon @soapdog @Foxboron @alatiera yes, in this case, it would, and I agree and I wish they would.
There is the reality though that the FOSS ecosystem is FULL of people like DHH, DHH just happens to be very famous. "Just don't engage with bad people" is hard in this ecosystem.
My take is, we're holding good actors to high standards, bad actors (dell etc) to low standards, leaving good actors to face risk of disqualification and putting selection pressure in favor of bad actors.
@komali_2 @smilingdemon @Foxboron @alatiera
it is impossible to clear FOSS of bad actors, but the problem is bad actors with large platforms and what to do when we learn they are bad actors.
Linus behaviour is also shitty, but I am yet to see Linus being a transphone or saying London should be more white.
We're just asking something very simple, stop platforming DHH. They won't lose a single sale from it.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
They send laptops to all the other main distros and DEs, and their 5k/year donation to Arch is functionally a direct payment to the trans community lol. They also donate thousands to debian, cachy, bazzite, nix, the bsds, kde, etc. They don't send any money directly to omarchy, unlike these other DEs and distros.
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@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
again, that normalisation of fascism is dangerous.
They can make sure it runs with Omarchy. They don't need to platform DHH, he is a fascist. Being a maintainer doesn't offload that.
Treating fascists well because they happen to be productive fascists is not good enough.
@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera Right, this isn't the first time we've been here though. You can't participate in FOSS without gnu tooling, and yet plausible sex pest Stallman is reinstated to the FSF. OpenBSD still refuses to have a code of conduct. The linux kernel mail list was a verbally abusive hell hole until recently. Dtrace still used, and Cantrill still around, despite never really addressing his controversies.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera Right, this isn't the first time we've been here though. You can't participate in FOSS without gnu tooling, and yet plausible sex pest Stallman is reinstated to the FSF. OpenBSD still refuses to have a code of conduct. The linux kernel mail list was a verbally abusive hell hole until recently. Dtrace still used, and Cantrill still around, despite never really addressing his controversies.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera I am all in favour of throwing stallman into the bin as well.
You understand that quoting other bad actors, doesn't excuse DHH.
I want them all gone. Did Framework sent Stallman a laptop? I didn't see that. They sent one for DHH and that is what I am complaining about
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera Right, this isn't the first time we've been here though. You can't participate in FOSS without gnu tooling, and yet plausible sex pest Stallman is reinstated to the FSF. OpenBSD still refuses to have a code of conduct. The linux kernel mail list was a verbally abusive hell hole until recently. Dtrace still used, and Cantrill still around, despite never really addressing his controversies.
@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera To be clear I'm not arguing for treating DHH well, merely that it's not feasible to detach from all the bad actors.
I hope they do detach from DHH, but, when they do, because the community holds "good" actors to a higher standard, there will be another controversy to take its place - most likely hyprland will again come under high scrutiny. Or its support of OpenBSD. Something.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera To be clear I'm not arguing for treating DHH well, merely that it's not feasible to detach from all the bad actors.
I hope they do detach from DHH, but, when they do, because the community holds "good" actors to a higher standard, there will be another controversy to take its place - most likely hyprland will again come under high scrutiny. Or its support of OpenBSD. Something.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
you seem to think that because we can't detach all bad actors that we simply shouldn't call them out or detach from the ones that are easier.
It is easier to deplatform DHH. They can simply not send a laptop.
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@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera I am all in favour of throwing stallman into the bin as well.
You understand that quoting other bad actors, doesn't excuse DHH.
I want them all gone. Did Framework sent Stallman a laptop? I didn't see that. They sent one for DHH and that is what I am complaining about
@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera Right, "all gone," that's my point, it isn't really possible. That would have to include openbsd, gnome (support for AWS which supports the IDF, an existent fascist threat and genocidal entity), hyprland.
I don't think this strategy leads to creating safer communities, I think it just puts selective pressure against good actors in favor of bad ones.
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@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
you seem to think that because we can't detach all bad actors that we simply shouldn't call them out or detach from the ones that are easier.
It is easier to deplatform DHH. They can simply not send a laptop.
@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
Again, I hope they don't send him another one, but my point is, we would probably still be having this conversation if they hadn't, we'd simply be discussing either hyprland or openbsd.
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@soapdog @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
Again, I hope they don't send him another one, but my point is, we would probably still be having this conversation if they hadn't, we'd simply be discussing either hyprland or openbsd.
@komali_2 @Foxboron @smilingdemon @alatiera
well, can you tell me what about OpenBSD we'd be talking? Not disputing curious because I am not aware of them being fascists..
