Even though I am generally interested in science and technology, I have found it impossible to get excited about Artemis II.
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Even though I am generally interested in science and technology, I have found it impossible to get excited about Artemis II.
I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's because America isn't exactly my favourite country these days because ... well, you know why. Or maybe it's because, contrary to what I'd always assumed, these things are a lot more jingoistic than I thought. It's not "Mankind is going to the moon", it's "America is beating China to the moon".
@davidnjoku But we have a Canadian on board if it’s any consolation.
Îm from 
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Even though I am generally interested in science and technology, I have found it impossible to get excited about Artemis II.
I'm not quite sure. Maybe it's because America isn't exactly my favourite country these days because ... well, you know why. Or maybe it's because, contrary to what I'd always assumed, these things are a lot more jingoistic than I thought. It's not "Mankind is going to the moon", it's "America is beating China to the moon".
@davidnjoku
This whole thread makes me wonder what else i am missing.
First it makes me wish to get to know more about *all* different space programs.
If one could provide links to preferable sites with a "wider view" that would be awesome.I blame media for featuring mostly bad/depressing/enraging news for the clicks - and for a way to narrow view provided.
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Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
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@Xavier Maybe that's what I'm missing. I've not listened to that, so I'm still thinking of it as something Trump has done, rather than something some hardworking science geeks have achieved.
@davidnjoku @Xavier I had the livestream on in my office and it was enjoyable.
When they came out from behind the moon and Trump called, I thought “that’s a hell of a punishment for coming out from behind the moon” and turned it off.This was something done despite him, he’s been cutting NASA budget. It’s European engines, much more a humanity is doing this kind of thing.
But I absolutely get where you’re coming from.
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Fair.
But do people hear about Elon launches and Artemis from the planetary society? Or from CNN and other mainstream media?
Mekka
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku I don't say what I say to disagree with your point, which I broadly agree with, friend. I just want to point out that principled exceptions exist.
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Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
YES! It has been bothering me to see all the hype for dark side of the moon pics with zero references to the Chinese who got the photos years aho
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YES! It has been bothering me to see all the hype for dark side of the moon pics with zero references to the Chinese who got the photos years aho
@CrankyOtter @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Got the photos from the GROUND years ago, yes.
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Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku I totally understand that. There's also the Indian space program landing a lunar rover on the moon's south pole the other year. I do remember hearing about that one more than any of the other Chinese space missions though. The Chandrayaan Programme was also notable for how cheaply they did everything compared to what NASA does.
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Yup.
Related:
I never see any of the "I'm just excited about space progress and science!" crowd celebrating any of the Chinese space flight accomplishments.They were silent when China landed a robot on the moon a few years ago. Silent when China landed a rover on Mars. Silent about the Chinese space station that's orbiting the planet. Silent about China's crewed mission to Mars that is on schedule to depart on 2033.
When they talk about space and science and exploration being "humanity's accomplishments," it's pretty clear who they're viewing as humanity. There's an era of cold war nationalism that feels yucky.
@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Goddamnit, I didn't even realize China landed a robot there last year and even created a small biosphere there! I'm annoyed that didn't spray across my feed then. I'm not really a space junkie beyond sci-fi enjoyment, but would have loved moon joy back then too.
For others who didn't know, h/t to @alienghic who shared a link with biosphere info:
China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout
The seeds, inside a sealed container, are the first plants ever grown on the Moon's surface.
(www.bbc.com)
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Hey that Chinese seedling sprouting on the moon was a neat experiment!
China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout
The seeds, inside a sealed container, are the first plants ever grown on the Moon's surface.
(www.bbc.com)
@alienghic This IS cool!
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@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Goddamnit, I didn't even realize China landed a robot there last year and even created a small biosphere there! I'm annoyed that didn't spray across my feed then. I'm not really a space junkie beyond sci-fi enjoyment, but would have loved moon joy back then too.
For others who didn't know, h/t to @alienghic who shared a link with biosphere info:
China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout
The seeds, inside a sealed container, are the first plants ever grown on the Moon's surface.
(www.bbc.com)
@jonobie @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku @alienghic sounds like an episode of Space Force. #spaceforce
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@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Goddamnit, I didn't even realize China landed a robot there last year and even created a small biosphere there! I'm annoyed that didn't spray across my feed then. I'm not really a space junkie beyond sci-fi enjoyment, but would have loved moon joy back then too.
For others who didn't know, h/t to @alienghic who shared a link with biosphere info:
China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout
The seeds, inside a sealed container, are the first plants ever grown on the Moon's surface.
(www.bbc.com)
@jonobie
Next, let's find out if Earth seeds will grow in Moon regolith. -
@jonobie
Next, let's find out if Earth seeds will grow in Moon regolith.@mrundkvist @jonobie Ferl and Paul from the University of Florida grew arabidopsis in genuine lunar regolith in 2022.
Scientists have (finally) grown plants in lunar soil! - Space Botany
More than fifty years after NASA's Apollo missions brought the first samples back to Earth, plant scientists have successfully grown plants in Moon soil (regolith).
Space Botany (spacebotany.uk)
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@mekkaokereke @davidnjoku Goddamnit, I didn't even realize China landed a robot there last year and even created a small biosphere there! I'm annoyed that didn't spray across my feed then. I'm not really a space junkie beyond sci-fi enjoyment, but would have loved moon joy back then too.
For others who didn't know, h/t to @alienghic who shared a link with biosphere info:
China's Moon mission sees first seeds sprout
The seeds, inside a sealed container, are the first plants ever grown on the Moon's surface.
(www.bbc.com)
@jonobie @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku @alienghic
The cotton seed sprouting on the Moon was in 2019.
The First Shoots on the Moon - Space Botany
The hope of being able to grow plants on the Moon will last much longer than the first seedlings to sprout there.
Space Botany (spacebotany.uk)
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@jonobie @mekkaokereke @davidnjoku @alienghic
The cotton seed sprouting on the Moon was in 2019.
The First Shoots on the Moon - Space Botany
The hope of being able to grow plants on the Moon will last much longer than the first seedlings to sprout there.
Space Botany (spacebotany.uk)
@UnconventionalEmma I completely missed it at the time!
Thank you for pointing out which part of that horrendous picture was the sprout
at my house we'd been debating it. -
@UnconventionalEmma I completely missed it at the time!
Thank you for pointing out which part of that horrendous picture was the sprout at my house we'd been debating it.@ProcessParsnip Yeah, it wasn’t exactly photogenic
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Yup:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXHd-KaRhk
And the Chinese space station has working Hall effect ionic impulse engines, similar to how the impulse engines in Star Trek work. So it doesn't just burn rocket fuel and oxygen for propulsion. It also uses a stream of ions.
@mekkaokereke @flowerpot @davidnjoku I wish they showed the fish!
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@RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00
You've either completely missed, or completely ignored, the point of my post.
I'll say it much more bluntly, to let you react to it:
It's not "cheering for humanity" if you only cheer when Europeans or Americans do it. Instead it's a weird kind of nationalism or eurocentrism that is the opposite of what Star Trek is supposedly selling.
And it's super obvious to non-white observers how we "cheer for humanity" when Elon or NASA does something spacey, but to not even talk about it when China or India do something.
India has also landed a probe on the moon, and India has sent a probe to Mars orbit. India is the first nation to successfully enter Mars orbit on the first try. And their mission control and science and engineering teams are a lot more gender balanced than most places.
I'm saying that we should "celebrate humanity's space achievements" when they do stuff too, but I don't see that happening.
This isn't "Don't cheer for NASA." I cheer for NASA!
This is "Don't try to sell me that US space race fever, is a win for humanity, because it's not."
It's "We can have a Federation of Planets, just as long as Earth is the head of that Federation, and the US is the head of Earth, and Starfleet headquarters is in San Francisco. Anything else is Romulans!
"@mekkaokereke @RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00 Basically - yes. In general - yes. But I feel, that I hesitate to cheer for china, 'cause I fear for military abuse by chinese non-democratic background. And yes, that is true now for US-activities (Nasa and private companies) as well.
And while US-space things will have military abuse in the future, Chinas space things have military design right from the start. -
@mekkaokereke @RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00 Basically - yes. In general - yes. But I feel, that I hesitate to cheer for china, 'cause I fear for military abuse by chinese non-democratic background. And yes, that is true now for US-activities (Nasa and private companies) as well.
And while US-space things will have military abuse in the future, Chinas space things have military design right from the start.@Reinald but that's a completely different point... @mekkaokereke @RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00
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@mekkaokereke @RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00 Basically - yes. In general - yes. But I feel, that I hesitate to cheer for china, 'cause I fear for military abuse by chinese non-democratic background. And yes, that is true now for US-activities (Nasa and private companies) as well.
And while US-space things will have military abuse in the future, Chinas space things have military design right from the start.@Reinald @mekkaokereke @RunRichRun @cyberlyra @davidnjoku @piquant00 exactly! I don't cheer for Artemis, but I more interested in ESA missions.
China is a totalitarian regime abusing human rights in many different forms. Sadly the USA is now like that too. So I don't cheer for undemocratic countries, whether they may be China, Russia, North Korea or the USA.
