This car costs $8500.
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This car costs $8500. Not a typo. Less than 10 racks. And you don't have to put gas in it.
But we can't have it in the US, because we'd rather have racism and argue about solved problems like birthright citizenship, and should Black people be allowed to vote.
So you get Cybertrucks instead. Enjoy!
@mekkaokereke The American public (also Canadian and European, to varying degrees) are captive consumers. They are not citizens. They exist to help push along the kleptocracies that survive by selling themselves as institutions of cultural tradition. And it works.
The people define themselves by what they hate. They find self-esteem only in destruction and threats. Their identities rest on the most degenerate forms of power. Making truly new, good, and beneficial things is for suckers. If it doesn't make someone addicted and vulnerable, it won't generate sufficient profits, and it won't assert who is more or less powerful. Power is all that matters anymore.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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@jeffmcneill AFAIU, the Big Oil fought against electric cars in USA so long that in the end, electric cars only managed to break into the luxury cars' market segment there.
@riley @jeffmcneill @mekkaokereke Banning the import of Chinese EV's for the past decade and choices made by domestic manufactures made it so there are no cheap options.
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@mekkaokereke My BYD Dolphin cost 569,000 Thai Baht. That is around 17,500 USD. It is a compact car (not subcompact) and it is a joy to drive. Why does a decent electric car cost nearly twice that in the US? Clearly they've lost the plot.
@jeffmcneill @mekkaokereke damn... a BYD Dolphin in the Netherlands price starts at 23K Euro
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One thing I have noticed missing from the opponents of "electric cars from China" is that their narrative does not talk about quality.
Those of us of a certain age can remember when "Made in Japan" was a punchline for jokes, based on the then-questionable quality of Japanese products.
When inexpensive Chinese-manufactured products started appearing in the 1990s, the quality was assumed to be poor.
Even in 2015, a guy where I worked bought six or seven instrument gadgets for the price of one from a North American supplier. He needed two or three, but figured, at that price, he could afford a 50 percent failure rate. This guy was a refugee from a communist country with strong anti-communist feelings, too. The gadgets turned out okay.
But silence from the North American suppliers on the quality of Chinese cars
@RuthODay2 @mekkaokereke China actually has higher standards in some areas but not others. For the EU they do have to change the vehicles in various safety related ways and also security as car theft is basically not a thing in China.
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This car costs $8500. Not a typo. Less than 10 racks. And you don't have to put gas in it.
But we can't have it in the US, because we'd rather have racism and argue about solved problems like birthright citizenship, and should Black people be allowed to vote.
So you get Cybertrucks instead. Enjoy!
@mekkaokereke You're probably right on the USA causes but it's worthwhile to mention that circa 2016/2017 none of the Chery vehicles could pass EU safety tests but now some of them do, evidence of attention to it as they expand their market and as a result improvement. The Tiggo compact SUVs do but not the compact and city cars. Compare that to vehicles by Kia, Mazda, Toyota, BYD, and VW that are all similarly-sized and do pass. I expect Chery export models will follow that do pass but they'll cost more.
Separately, I'd argue that if 2 to 3 ton SUVs weren't the N.A. family "car" the testing regimes could allow a tier of small, inexpensive urban cars and trucks that are more efficient most ways (see Kei trucks and the Piaggio Ape/Super-Ape) even if they aren't interstate capable.
As a bicyclist, motorcyclist, and owner of a compact sedan I'd prefer if the average vehicle wasn't big enough to fit my car inside it. -
@mekkaokereke My BYD Dolphin cost 569,000 Thai Baht. That is around 17,500 USD. It is a compact car (not subcompact) and it is a joy to drive. Why does a decent electric car cost nearly twice that in the US? Clearly they've lost the plot.
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@mekkaokereke My BYD Dolphin cost 569,000 Thai Baht. That is around 17,500 USD. It is a compact car (not subcompact) and it is a joy to drive. Why does a decent electric car cost nearly twice that in the US? Clearly they've lost the plot.
@jeffmcneill @mekkaokereke cost of labor is much lower in China.
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This car costs $8500. Not a typo. Less than 10 racks. And you don't have to put gas in it.
But we can't have it in the US, because we'd rather have racism and argue about solved problems like birthright citizenship, and should Black people be allowed to vote.
So you get Cybertrucks instead. Enjoy!
@mekkaokereke Hmm.... And isn't the problem hidden somewhere else?
Like, similarly to the smartphones these days - e.g. that you pay the rest of the price with your private data?
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@mekkaokereke My BYD Dolphin cost 569,000 Thai Baht. That is around 17,500 USD. It is a compact car (not subcompact) and it is a joy to drive. Why does a decent electric car cost nearly twice that in the US? Clearly they've lost the plot.
US domestic auto manufacturers have long disliked making affordable cars. The profit margins are too low.
Meanwhile, even luxury goods in other commodities has been outsourced to China and other 'developing' countries. That there is still a US auto industry at all is a matter of macho national pride and its very profitable military production side.
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@mekkaokereke Hmm.... And isn't the problem hidden somewhere else?
Like, similarly to the smartphones these days - e.g. that you pay the rest of the price with your private data?
@theron29 @mekkaokereke I mean, yeah, but pretty much every car maker does that anyway so I'd rather have the cheaper option https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/personal-information/how-to-stop-your-car-from-collecting-sharing-driving-data-a1233378612/
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@theron29 @mekkaokereke I mean, yeah, but pretty much every car maker does that anyway so I'd rather have the cheaper option https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/personal-information/how-to-stop-your-car-from-collecting-sharing-driving-data-a1233378612/
@nirak @mekkaokereke I mean, yeah, probably, but I'd rather not have my personal data with Communist Party of China...
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One thing I have noticed missing from the opponents of "electric cars from China" is that their narrative does not talk about quality.
Those of us of a certain age can remember when "Made in Japan" was a punchline for jokes, based on the then-questionable quality of Japanese products.
When inexpensive Chinese-manufactured products started appearing in the 1990s, the quality was assumed to be poor.
Even in 2015, a guy where I worked bought six or seven instrument gadgets for the price of one from a North American supplier. He needed two or three, but figured, at that price, he could afford a 50 percent failure rate. This guy was a refugee from a communist country with strong anti-communist feelings, too. The gadgets turned out okay.
But silence from the North American suppliers on the quality of Chinese cars
@RuthODay2@chaosfem.tw @mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io The quality talk is still there for some, but things like Ford's CEO raving about his Xiaomi car, and stuff like this cheap EV minitruck holding up for years have started to eat away at that narrative - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgDpqd38HtQ
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@mekkaokereke My BYD Dolphin cost 569,000 Thai Baht. That is around 17,500 USD. It is a compact car (not subcompact) and it is a joy to drive. Why does a decent electric car cost nearly twice that in the US? Clearly they've lost the plot.
@jeffmcneill @mekkaokereke
Part if it is US manufacturers were slow to embrace LFP battery chemistries (cheaper than NMC batteries).But most of it is the Chinese government and industry spent billions in research and capital to make EVs cheaper than gas cars. Economies of scale and strategic vertical integration of supply chains.
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@jeffmcneill @mekkaokereke cost of labor is much lower in China.
@johne @jeffmcneill @mekkaokereke
A lot less human labour goes into modern EVs than your granpa's gas guzzler. Far fewer moving parts, much more factory automation and innovations like casting the body of the car in a single piece, instead of welding a bunch of pieces together. -
@nirak @mekkaokereke I mean, yeah, probably, but I'd rather not have my personal data with Communist Party of China...
@theron29 @nirak @mekkaokereke
One of the super fun things about the Trump administration and all the stuff they've been doing is that my fear of <evil jazz fingers> The Chinese Communists </evil jazz fingers> getting my data somewhat pales in comparison.
The unfortunate reality is that if they want to surveil you, they can just buy the data from American companies that are tracking you.
One thing I love about this car is the distinctly not-Detroit not-Yokohama aesthetic. Very nice.
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@mekkaokereke You're probably right on the USA causes but it's worthwhile to mention that circa 2016/2017 none of the Chery vehicles could pass EU safety tests but now some of them do, evidence of attention to it as they expand their market and as a result improvement. The Tiggo compact SUVs do but not the compact and city cars. Compare that to vehicles by Kia, Mazda, Toyota, BYD, and VW that are all similarly-sized and do pass. I expect Chery export models will follow that do pass but they'll cost more.
Separately, I'd argue that if 2 to 3 ton SUVs weren't the N.A. family "car" the testing regimes could allow a tier of small, inexpensive urban cars and trucks that are more efficient most ways (see Kei trucks and the Piaggio Ape/Super-Ape) even if they aren't interstate capable.
As a bicyclist, motorcyclist, and owner of a compact sedan I'd prefer if the average vehicle wasn't big enough to fit my car inside it.EU car safety standards are far and away better than NHTSA, specifically with respect to pedestrian safety but also side crash survival. So if their cars pass that, they should be able to pass NHTSA as well.
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@nirak @mekkaokereke I mean, yeah, probably, but I'd rather not have my personal data with Communist Party of China...
@theron29 @nirak @mekkaokereke why? They're not using it to (attempt to) control you, which cannot be said for western exchangers of personal data. That sentiment is just racism.
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@theron29 @nirak @mekkaokereke why? They're not using it to (attempt to) control you, which cannot be said for western exchangers of personal data. That sentiment is just racism.
@sillyCoelophysis I feel like the "I don't want my data held by an authoritarian regime" argument made sense once, but these days there's no difference between China, the US, and the UK. Those still using the argument from habit need to think that thru.
@theron29 @nirak @mekkaokereke -
@sillyCoelophysis I feel like the "I don't want my data held by an authoritarian regime" argument made sense once, but these days there's no difference between China, the US, and the UK. Those still using the argument from habit need to think that thru.
@theron29 @nirak @mekkaokereke@Tattie @sillyCoelophysis @nirak @mekkaokereke Oh but the difference is brutally huge for me!
(I'm from the
️ 🤨) -
@Tattie @sillyCoelophysis @nirak @mekkaokereke Oh but the difference is brutally huge for me!
(I'm from the
️ 🤨)@theron29 all very well, but the original context was the US
@sillyCoelophysis @nirak @mekkaokereke
