Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
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@tnhd @rimu @dansup So the average user is just stuck dealing with the abuse if it's coming, from, say, mastodon.social or some other instance that's too big for their admin to be willing to defederate from? Or else they have to just burn another account, abandon their posting history and go somewhere else and hope it doesn't happen again?
This is one of the attitudes that drives people out of the Fediverse and back toward centralized services.
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Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup Should be optional?
I blocked so many people on Twitter and Facebook, but their older quote are valid and merely giving context.
Blocking people sometimes means "there's no wrong with them, I simply not interested in their post and don't want them to see me anymore."
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, it's an *improvement* if it's not managed specifically through blocklists, 90% of the moderation I do on my art galleries does not result in a block.
I am fine with it being on a post by post basis and using the same proactive consent model as a quote post, even though that's not fully 100% reliable everywhere. It would still help a ton.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup the way I see it, I'm not asking for a single feature that is not already actively deployed on the fediverse, I just want to be able to use those features on the hard link between replies and their parent threads and between parent threads and their replies.
The same way I already can with quote links.
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- That's theory, not practice.
- Mastodon.social was simply an example.
- There have actually been instances that talked about (and possibly followed through on) blocking mastodon.social due to the number of bad actors who managed to slip through the cracks in moderation actions.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I would be happy with the same mechanism as quote posts. I don't need it to be managed via blocks, and I don't need the post full on deleted from the other server. I also don't need perfect enforcement.
If you click on a reply, it loads a hard link to the post it's replying to, no?
And if you run FetchAllReplies, that asks my server for a list of replies, no?
@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup through the context of the server you're replying FROM though, not the original server the first post came from. Once the messages federate the chain exists on other servers, not just your own, people can still see replies other than yours even if they were to block your entire server.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup the way I see it, I'm not asking for a single feature that is not already actively deployed on the fediverse, I just want to be able to use those features on the hard link between replies and their parent threads and between parent threads and their replies.
The same way I already can with quote links.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, I would even welcome just a setting that allows people/critters following me to opt in to only seeing replies I approve.
I use reply moderation as a community safety tool under fetish artwork to make sure critters following me have proper content warnings for extreme kinks.
Mastodon has no mechanism to help with this.
We are so far behind the curve on moderation. There are things we could do to get at least part of the way towards a working system.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, I would even welcome just a setting that allows people/critters following me to opt in to only seeing replies I approve.
I use reply moderation as a community safety tool under fetish artwork to make sure critters following me have proper content warnings for extreme kinks.
Mastodon has no mechanism to help with this.
We are so far behind the curve on moderation. There are things we could do to get at least part of the way towards a working system.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup like we're taking about this under a thread about pixelfed, an art gallery platform.
It is not optional for NSFW artists to be able to curate replies under fetish art, a gallery site that doesn't have that is not a serious gallery site.
I can't think of a single example of a good gallery site that doesn't let me remove comments that go outside of my content warnings.
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@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup through the context of the server you're replying FROM though, not the original server the first post came from. Once the messages federate the chain exists on other servers, not just your own, people can still see replies other than yours even if they were to block your entire server.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup so how do quote posts get around that, because those links also get federated?
Like, I am genuinely not understanding what you mean by this.
Also, quote *permissions* federate. You can see my reply on a server that has federated from another server.. and on average, non-participating platforms aside, you will need to get my permission to quote, and I can revoke that permission and turn off quote posts, and it will federate properly.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup so how do quote posts get around that, because those links also get federated?
Like, I am genuinely not understanding what you mean by this.
Also, quote *permissions* federate. You can see my reply on a server that has federated from another server.. and on average, non-participating platforms aside, you will need to get my permission to quote, and I can revoke that permission and turn off quote posts, and it will federate properly.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup federation does not destroy the original link or prevent cooperating platforms from making requests to other servers to fetch permissions. Every single post will have a "copy original link" button, that link exists, every server federating knows how to send a request to the original server.
That's how FetchAllReplies works.
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Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup hear hear. and from seeing quote posts featuring them; same goes for filtered stuff.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup federation does not destroy the original link or prevent cooperating platforms from making requests to other servers to fetch permissions. Every single post will have a "copy original link" button, that link exists, every server federating knows how to send a request to the original server.
That's how FetchAllReplies works.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup At the *very* very least, it is no technical problem for fetchAllReplies to not return replies that I've removed. My server already knows my blocklist, I'm not sharing any new information with it if it decides to filter out those replies.
And even *just* that behavior would make this better. At the very least if someone goes to the server I live on in a web browser and opens up my thread.. that can filter replies, I could have a "remove reply button" for that.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup At the *very* very least, it is no technical problem for fetchAllReplies to not return replies that I've removed. My server already knows my blocklist, I'm not sharing any new information with it if it decides to filter out those replies.
And even *just* that behavior would make this better. At the very least if someone goes to the server I live on in a web browser and opens up my thread.. that can filter replies, I could have a "remove reply button" for that.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup that is not something that would be technically impossible to do - it wouldn't be perfect, but it would help.
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@gbargoud @alterelefant @dansup
If you are a bad actor you can just install a "shadow" account on a different instance with a similar instance name.
Then you can just post text "in the name of" the user who has blocked you.
There are always thins you can do as a bad actor in a system without central coordination ("decentral").
I don't understand which proposal could add an extra layer of "defence" here?
@dnkrupinski
There is no defense possible against instances that consistently show bad behavior. To defederate an instance is the ultimate measure.
@gbargoud @dansup -
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@kelson
I don't know what you, and those instances, think are bad actors, but I suspect that might include people that .social, being relatively liberal, deliberately doesn't disallow. Concerning the objectively bad actors, they might just tend to go to .social due to the absence of reason to go elsewhere. You can't blame the .social moderators for that. (2/2)
@rimu @dansup -
@dansup Should be optional?
I blocked so many people on Twitter and Facebook, but their older quote are valid and merely giving context.
Blocking people sometimes means "there's no wrong with them, I simply not interested in their post and don't want them to see me anymore."
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@kelson
> harassment, scams, or other abusive replies
Those should be removed by server moderators. If the origin server doesn't take it down, other servers can decide to defederate it. If your own server neither defederates not deletes the reported replies, you should look for another server imho.
@rimu @dansupGood idea.
> Let's imagine I post a bunch of antivax nonsense (or fascism, etc) and then block everyone who debunks me. Their replies are deleted, only leaving those that agree with me.
Why wouldn't that also work for this scenario?
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I'm supposed to simultaneously believe that server-level moderation is enough to remove abusive replies or misinformation coming from other instances.. but not enough to remove misinformation if it's not in a reply?
If somebody posts misinformation and disables replies, then report it, the same way you would with any other post. Easy.
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Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
This is a very hard problem. And the risk of getting it wrong and having a lot of disinformation as a result is very big. This needs most cooperating software implementations to coordinate on blocking semanticis, like with GTS reply control.
In my opinion this is one of the hardest problems of fedi.
Imagine half of the responses you block still show in half of the instances that can see your post via federation. Some will see those blocked replies, some will not, and the more your post federates, the more inconsistent this will be. You have to account for this if you truly want to build this feature right.
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@kelson
I don't know what you, and those instances, think are bad actors, but I suspect that might include people that .social, being relatively liberal, deliberately doesn't disallow. Concerning the objectively bad actors, they might just tend to go to .social due to the absence of reason to go elsewhere. You can't blame the .social moderators for that. (2/2)
@rimu @dansup
