Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
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Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
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@kunev "There, I fixed it"
Monkey’s paw closes
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This is in a PR where Shougo, another long-time contributor, communicates entirely in walls of unparseable AI slop text: https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/19413
What a pathetic state after decades of active, thoughtful work. "I asked the chatbot how to write this code", "Well, I asked my chatbot, and "he" doesn't like it". What a fucking embarrassment.
> He is responsible for reviewing and making calls on every single issue and PR. While other members do help, we are severely understaffed. Using AI to streamline this overwhelming workload is a practical necessity
Gosh, I'd love to know what Bram would say to this comment in particular.
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@KatS @barubary @AndrewRadev don't switch yet. GNU is still discussing whether to allow LLM vomitted code contributions. Them of all projects not rejecting it on ideological grounds and some emacs manitainers seemingly liking LLMs is not a good sign though.
I will be MAD if I have to abandon emacs because of this shit
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@AndrewRadev feeling reaffirmed in my stance that AI is also a wake-up call to society as a whole—because this so-called AI can only do bullshit formalities and soulless reproduction of expected patterns without doing any real work or any real thinking, whatever job AI can take is 100% a bullshit job that shouldn’t exist in the first place
i feel like this is yanking at some very fundamental systems interwoven in the social fabric, and i’m not sure peopla quite realize the extent of it yet; the repercussions, should it all unravel—which might just happen. the constantly accelerating propagation and increasing information density of communication, and now this technology, seem to me like they’re heralding a sort of collective awakening that perfectly coincides with the decline of the last generations that did not grow up cultivating unprecedented mental flexibility in a rapidly, drastically and unpredictably changing world viewed through the kaleidoscope peephole of the internet. a point in time where we all begin to realize and seriously ask ourselves, “what if we just stopped doing things the way our ancestors did, and reevaluated everything they consider normal? should we let the living organism that is our society be governed by the principles of people who worry about the decline in alcohol and tobacco consumption, or are they a malignant growth that needs to be excised?”
because to me, what this AI does and how it fits into the world, and how it reaches into almost every corner of an average person’s life, just highlights the hypernormal fakeness that permeates everything in our tech-infused modern lifestyle full of abstractions and bureaucracy that keep us from engaging with the real world. i’m starting to think that everyone seemingly having worse ADHD/ASD symptoms than ever is no coincidence either, because deep down we realize that the world in our minds, the one we engage with as a proxy for what is real, is an unrewarding vacuum thirsting for meaning—and being deprived of healthy bonds, closeness and intimacy also means being deprived of things that are absolutely essential for brain development.
how is it that the world is so vivid and full of life, yet so dead and bleak in our minds that we constantly have to surround ourselves with artificial stimuli to keep us occupied with abstractions, afterimages, fantasies and worries about things we collectively made up? how did we all get traumatized and brainwashed so badly we lost our sense of wonder and appreciation for the life that surrounds us, and replaced the warmth in our everyday encounters, that thing we absolutely need for our mental wellbeing, with touchscreens, self-service terminals and machines that show us only what we want to see? why choose to live in concrete jungles where no matter where you go, something tries to drill into your skull to make you want to consume more of the fakeness? or in suburbs where we’re horribly alone with nothing to do and no one to meet?@mia preach! Thank you. @AndrewRadev
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@KatS @lhp @barubary @AndrewRadev
Well frack, where do I take my text editing needs now? Which vi/vim variant hasn't been infected with this slop?
Or do I just go back to vi? I'll miss syntax highlighting and multi-staged undo, but don't really use any other vim features.
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@simon_brooke @AndrewRadev i am not a native English speaker either but i am perfectly capable of thinking
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@mirabilos @KatS @lhp @barubary @AndrewRadev
Does it have vi keybindings?
I use vim over vi because 1) syntax highlighting, and 2) multistep undo.
I do not give a flying frack about anything else. I started using vi in 1992ish.... I switched to vim a few years later. I am not thrilled about changing my finger memory.
And as always.... does it exist in #FreeBSD ports?
For those playing along at home, I am trying out helix, on the advice of the advice of a friend.
All I have ever wanted is vi + colors.
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@mirabilos First impressions:
- website doesn't work over https
- there is no documentation (for
jupp, that is; there is ajoeman page, but it says it's a different "flavor") - "ASCII text screen editor" doesn't sound great (you need a special option just to make 8-bit charsets work; Unicode/UTF-8 aren't even mentioned)
- it doesn't support regular expressions
- the search/replace interface is broken (according to the documentation, it prompts separately for the search pattern and the replacement part)
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@AndrewRadev these people are old, exhausted, and dont want to code anymore.
@f4grx @AndrewRadev they could stop
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Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
@AndrewRadev brainrot is going to become a valid medical term
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Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
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@debacle @AndrewRadev we all know gcc is capable of hatred, which means gcc must be sentient
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This is in a PR where Shougo, another long-time contributor, communicates entirely in walls of unparseable AI slop text: https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/19413
What a pathetic state after decades of active, thoughtful work. "I asked the chatbot how to write this code", "Well, I asked my chatbot, and "he" doesn't like it". What a fucking embarrassment.
@AndrewRadev It’s so bad, but then I got to this comment, and now I have lots of questions:
“That said, maybe we can change some things to be less Christian-centric?”
Add setrepeat() and getrepeat() functions for dot command control by Shougo · Pull Request #19413 · vim/vim
The official Vim repository. Contribute to vim/vim development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
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@debacle @AndrewRadev we all know gcc is capable of hatred, which means gcc must be sentient
@debacle @AndrewRadev i think the big difference is that ChatGPT etc are DESIGNED to trick you into anthropomorphizing them, so it's cute when you anthropomorphize gcc, but when you do the same thing to ChatGPT, you are just falling for their lies
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@mirabilos @KatS @lhp @barubary @AndrewRadev
Does it have vi keybindings?
I use vim over vi because 1) syntax highlighting, and 2) multistep undo.
I do not give a flying frack about anything else. I started using vi in 1992ish.... I switched to vim a few years later. I am not thrilled about changing my finger memory.
And as always.... does it exist in #FreeBSD ports?
For those playing along at home, I am trying out helix, on the advice of the advice of a friend.
All I have ever wanted is vi + colors.
@nuintari @KatS @lhp @barubary @AndrewRadev it doesn’t. I’m sorry I don’t have a good recommendation for
vi-ish users. (nviis also not good because, at least on GNU systems, when you edit a file with a byte that is not valid in the current locale, it truncates the file there with an error message at save time, with no way to recover.)viis not a favourite of mine (I know enough to get by but I’d often rather useedinstead, or indeedjupp, or if it must bemcedit, just notpicoor GNU’s clone thereof), which is why I have no idea about others that may exist. -
@mirabilos First impressions:
- website doesn't work over https
- there is no documentation (for
jupp, that is; there is ajoeman page, but it says it's a different "flavor") - "ASCII text screen editor" doesn't sound great (you need a special option just to make 8-bit charsets work; Unicode/UTF-8 aren't even mentioned)
- it doesn't support regular expressions
- the search/replace interface is broken (according to the documentation, it prompts separately for the search pattern and the replacement part)
@barubary some of that are admittedly good points.
website doesn't work over https
That’s only semi-true for the old main mirror (it does, but TLSv1); there’s a TLSv1.2+ mirror
mbsd.evolvis.orgwhich the packagers just need to plug into the homepage fields.It also does work over plain
http, which is a bonus, especially for the “smallweb”.there is no documentation (for jupp, that is; there is a joe man page, but it says it's a different "flavor")
Yes. Writing a proper
mdoc(7)page forjuppis on my TODO. To my excuse, it has been this way when I forked it offjoe, whosejstarflavour is similarly underdocumented, and the keybindings are documented in the on-line help (press Ctrl-J once you started it), which I extended, are very similar to editors like DR DOS’ or Borland’s, and thejupprcfile is not hard to read to figure out things either.I know, all merely excuses, and, yes, it is on my TODO. (The problem being, I do so much FOSS, and I also have to earn a living… you know.)
"ASCII text screen editor" doesn't sound great (you need a special option just to make 8-bit charsets work; Unicode/UTF-8 aren't even mentioned)
Hmm, that’s probably old docs? Maybe from CP/M times? It runs in UTF-8 mode by default. If your display charset does not match the locale’s, you can export
JOECHARMAPto override it, and^OEsets the charset of the file (so you can even edit files not in the current display charset).it doesn't support regular expressions
This is plain wrong. I use regular expressions in it daily, especially to fix up erroneous whitespace at EOL/EOF (which I bound to the
^K]shortcut so I don’t have to type it all the time).The 2.x version for DOS even supports them, up to a point.
the search/replace interface is broken (according to the documentation, it prompts separately for the search pattern and the replacement part)
Where is that “broken”? The majority of editors does that, and it saves having to reserve a char for separator, just pressing Enter (here twice, as before the replacement pattern it also asks for options, like, whether to actually replace or just search (with a suitable default based on the key combination you used to invoke it), case sensitivity, whether to limit to the highlighted block, etc.) will do.
But thank you for an honest attempt at a first review, and for even considering doing that much, and my apologies for the website and manpage issues.
(Edit: (hopefully) improved Markdown rendering. I hate Markdown.)
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@eljojo @penny @dirtside where did Penny lack in engagement? Being pessimistic about your ability to use conversation for any alternative conclusion isn't a poor decision. There's more than enough people applying rigour before despising AI intrusion. You can't just label every aversion to AI as prematurely taken bigotry. It's an aversion of exhaustion for many, and you don't seem to know how to embrace that exhaustion in others.
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@barubary some of that are admittedly good points.
website doesn't work over https
That’s only semi-true for the old main mirror (it does, but TLSv1); there’s a TLSv1.2+ mirror
mbsd.evolvis.orgwhich the packagers just need to plug into the homepage fields.It also does work over plain
http, which is a bonus, especially for the “smallweb”.there is no documentation (for jupp, that is; there is a joe man page, but it says it's a different "flavor")
Yes. Writing a proper
mdoc(7)page forjuppis on my TODO. To my excuse, it has been this way when I forked it offjoe, whosejstarflavour is similarly underdocumented, and the keybindings are documented in the on-line help (press Ctrl-J once you started it), which I extended, are very similar to editors like DR DOS’ or Borland’s, and thejupprcfile is not hard to read to figure out things either.I know, all merely excuses, and, yes, it is on my TODO. (The problem being, I do so much FOSS, and I also have to earn a living… you know.)
"ASCII text screen editor" doesn't sound great (you need a special option just to make 8-bit charsets work; Unicode/UTF-8 aren't even mentioned)
Hmm, that’s probably old docs? Maybe from CP/M times? It runs in UTF-8 mode by default. If your display charset does not match the locale’s, you can export
JOECHARMAPto override it, and^OEsets the charset of the file (so you can even edit files not in the current display charset).it doesn't support regular expressions
This is plain wrong. I use regular expressions in it daily, especially to fix up erroneous whitespace at EOL/EOF (which I bound to the
^K]shortcut so I don’t have to type it all the time).The 2.x version for DOS even supports them, up to a point.
the search/replace interface is broken (according to the documentation, it prompts separately for the search pattern and the replacement part)
Where is that “broken”? The majority of editors does that, and it saves having to reserve a char for separator, just pressing Enter (here twice, as before the replacement pattern it also asks for options, like, whether to actually replace or just search (with a suitable default based on the key combination you used to invoke it), case sensitivity, whether to limit to the highlighted block, etc.) will do.
But thank you for an honest attempt at a first review, and for even considering doing that much, and my apologies for the website and manpage issues.
(Edit: (hopefully) improved Markdown rendering. I hate Markdown.)
@mirabilos Re: regex, how do you do set union or alternation, a.k.a
|in most regex flavors? I did see the Kleene star (spelled\+for some reason) in the manual, but|was missing. -
@mirabilos Re: regex, how do you do set union or alternation, a.k.a
|in most regex flavors? I did see the Kleene star (spelled\+for some reason) in the manual, but|was missing.@barubary yeah, alternation doesn’t exist, similar to POSIX BRE which also lacks it.
The spelling is “everything special with backslash” so that everything not backslash-prefixed is just a normal string, which is unusual if all you know is unixoid RE flavours, but workable. (The on-line help card that appears when you press
^Jwhile in the RE prompt explains it, too.)
