Literal conversation I overheard:
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There have always been kids who just didn't care about general education. School wasn't interesting to them, either because of the way it was taught, bc it was inaccessible due to lack of accommodations for undiagnosed learning disabilities, or bc the subject matter didn't interest them at all.
LLMs give those kids the ability to get decent grades, which lets them pursue the things they actually like, since often adults will gate those activities behind...getting decent grades.
2/
Unpacking this a bit: if you spend 12 hours a day frustrated that you're doing something you hate that you aren't good at, and you aren't allowed to do the things you like to do because you aren't successful at those tasks you don't like, and suddenly there's a "free" ubiquitous service that let's you get decent grades quickly *and* access what you actually love -
why wouldn't you use it?
Systematized education is extremely porous. Millions of students get worse educations because...
3/
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Unpacking this a bit: if you spend 12 hours a day frustrated that you're doing something you hate that you aren't good at, and you aren't allowed to do the things you like to do because you aren't successful at those tasks you don't like, and suddenly there's a "free" ubiquitous service that let's you get decent grades quickly *and* access what you actually love -
why wouldn't you use it?
Systematized education is extremely porous. Millions of students get worse educations because...
3/
...they fall through the copious cracks in the system. Generalized *anything* is going to be extremely biased against people without "generalized" educational interests or needs.
LLMs are a (bad horrific terrible atrocious) way out for those kids.
But what actually needs to happen is the de-systematizing of education itself, which should be bespoke *per student*. Something that's possible if you 1) value teachers and 2) have enough of them.
But hey, that would be "impossible".
4/
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...they fall through the copious cracks in the system. Generalized *anything* is going to be extremely biased against people without "generalized" educational interests or needs.
LLMs are a (bad horrific terrible atrocious) way out for those kids.
But what actually needs to happen is the de-systematizing of education itself, which should be bespoke *per student*. Something that's possible if you 1) value teachers and 2) have enough of them.
But hey, that would be "impossible".
4/
This systematized education - characterized by teaching-to-the-test, "standard" curricula, 40-to-1 teacher-student ratios, strict general reqs for graduation, the defunding of the arts and relegation of trade skills, and an emphasis on the *extremely specific* "STEM" education - warps how and what teachers teach, which makes going to school a chore for most kids that they endure but don't really enjoy.
And, as this article points out, a chore for the teachers, too.
5/
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This systematized education - characterized by teaching-to-the-test, "standard" curricula, 40-to-1 teacher-student ratios, strict general reqs for graduation, the defunding of the arts and relegation of trade skills, and an emphasis on the *extremely specific* "STEM" education - warps how and what teachers teach, which makes going to school a chore for most kids that they endure but don't really enjoy.
And, as this article points out, a chore for the teachers, too.
5/
The solution to the LLM education crisis is to de-standardize education, invest in teachers, empower kids and teachers over political school boards and nosy parents, outlaw private donations to public schools, end private schools and for-profit education, and remove testing/measurement of "educational progress and success".
Basically, it's the same as the solution to the ongoing, cascading education problems we've been having for the last 50 years, created on purpose by neofascists.
6/
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The solution to the LLM education crisis is to de-standardize education, invest in teachers, empower kids and teachers over political school boards and nosy parents, outlaw private donations to public schools, end private schools and for-profit education, and remove testing/measurement of "educational progress and success".
Basically, it's the same as the solution to the ongoing, cascading education problems we've been having for the last 50 years, created on purpose by neofascists.
6/
Let's put it simply: if kids *want to learn what they're learning*, using LLMs to do the work will feel like cheating on a video game: it just ruins the fun.
Because - and I cannot emphasize this enough - *HUMAN CHILDREN LOVE TO LEARN SHIT*. So if they're avoiding "learning", that's a red flag.
Misdiagnosing this turn to LLMs as anything but a reveal of how badly our education system has gone awry under neoliberal/neofascist control will do nothing but make all of this much, much worse.
7/fin
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The solution to the LLM education crisis is to de-standardize education, invest in teachers, empower kids and teachers over political school boards and nosy parents, outlaw private donations to public schools, end private schools and for-profit education, and remove testing/measurement of "educational progress and success".
Basically, it's the same as the solution to the ongoing, cascading education problems we've been having for the last 50 years, created on purpose by neofascists.
6/
@johnzajac school is for teaching obedience and stealing money from people who don't understand school bonds so that schools can act like glorified real estate agents that happen to also have to manage children like cattle or else lose their money that no one is auditing how it is spent to better education (it's not).
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@johnzajac school is for teaching obedience and stealing money from people who don't understand school bonds so that schools can act like glorified real estate agents that happen to also have to manage children like cattle or else lose their money that no one is auditing how it is spent to better education (it's not).
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@johnzajac yes, let's just get rid of EVERYONE who benefits from the current system. Then... maybe.
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There have always been kids who just didn't care about general education. School wasn't interesting to them, either because of the way it was taught, bc it was inaccessible due to lack of accommodations for undiagnosed learning disabilities, or bc the subject matter didn't interest them at all.
LLMs give those kids the ability to get decent grades, which lets them pursue the things they actually like, since often adults will gate those activities behind...getting decent grades.
2/
@johnzajac no one really tells children why going to school is important, and a lot of the reasons are heavy on bullshit anyway.
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Unpacking this a bit: if you spend 12 hours a day frustrated that you're doing something you hate that you aren't good at, and you aren't allowed to do the things you like to do because you aren't successful at those tasks you don't like, and suddenly there's a "free" ubiquitous service that let's you get decent grades quickly *and* access what you actually love -
why wouldn't you use it?
Systematized education is extremely porous. Millions of students get worse educations because...
3/
why wouldn't you use it?
because it’s exploitative, thieving fashtech that literally, not just figuratively, burns the earth, and that makes the brain mushy so I wouldn’t even be able to enjoy the things I do like
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Let's put it simply: if kids *want to learn what they're learning*, using LLMs to do the work will feel like cheating on a video game: it just ruins the fun.
Because - and I cannot emphasize this enough - *HUMAN CHILDREN LOVE TO LEARN SHIT*. So if they're avoiding "learning", that's a red flag.
Misdiagnosing this turn to LLMs as anything but a reveal of how badly our education system has gone awry under neoliberal/neofascist control will do nothing but make all of this much, much worse.
7/fin
@johnzajac I don't think it's possible for me to agree any harder.
Until this becomes a reality - the answer is for individual families to home educate. Because in your home, you can control the process and make all of this be a reality.
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Literal conversation I overheard:
A: "I don't like AI because it does everything I do much worse than I do it."
B: "But what if you don't know how to do what you need to do?"
A: "...I learn? I learn how to do it."
B: "...huh..."
It seems that what LLMs are doing with education is twofold: 1) it's giving kids who couldn't care less about what they're being forced to learn a way out, and 2) it's laying bare the disconnect btw how we teach vs how kids want to learn
1/
To teach in the time of ChatGPT is to know pain
LLM use is the most demoralizing problem I’ve faced as a college instructor.
Ars Technica (arstechnica.com)
@johnzajac
This is great. I had some gut feeling relating to an educationproject. Couldnt quite express it.It s exactly what you say. Disconnected.
Thanks for posting!
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The solution to the LLM education crisis is to de-standardize education, invest in teachers, empower kids and teachers over political school boards and nosy parents, outlaw private donations to public schools, end private schools and for-profit education, and remove testing/measurement of "educational progress and success".
Basically, it's the same as the solution to the ongoing, cascading education problems we've been having for the last 50 years, created on purpose by neofascists.
6/
@johnzajac The fact that people accept the idea of "good school districts" without even blinking is a sign of just how deep our social failures go. IT'S OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE. HOW DID WE LET THERE BE ANY BAD ONES?!
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
