PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
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@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
One would hope, but I’ve seen little evidence of that so far. Europe is still more scared of China than the US and I think that’s a critical mistake.@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element We won't become independent if we keep treating anything that happens in the US as some kind of the only possible future for ourselves.
And that is what I advocate even in this thread.
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@prma @davidgerard @aral @precariousmind @element So, I am not clear about all this stuff but Element is a coding platform, right?
@MisuseCase @davidgerard @aral @precariousmind @element I’m not sure what you mean by coding platform.
Element develops home server applications and client applications based on Matrix protocol. Sort of like how mastadon is to activitypub.
And they sell enterprise SaaS and support for these products as their business model. You can for example use conduit as the homeserver and lots of client apps. You then are not using element’s products but using matrix. (1/2) -
@MisuseCase @davidgerard @aral @precariousmind @element I’m not sure what you mean by coding platform.
Element develops home server applications and client applications based on Matrix protocol. Sort of like how mastadon is to activitypub.
And they sell enterprise SaaS and support for these products as their business model. You can for example use conduit as the homeserver and lots of client apps. You then are not using element’s products but using matrix. (1/2)But in practice it’s the same as mastodon and activitypub. Element has a huge market share and thus influence in the matrix space. Never mind the historical ties. (2/2)
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@freediverx @aral @element Police protects capital in countries where the capital equals political power. Can we agree on that?
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But in practice it’s the same as mastodon and activitypub. Element has a huge market share and thus influence in the matrix space. Never mind the historical ties. (2/2)
@prma It sounds like it might be a little different from the relationship between Mastodon and ActivityPub but okay.
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@freediverx @mpsi @aral @element Other countries don’t do good things or bad things solely because of America.
Like, Britain being a racist ex-colonial power with a hell of a lot of classism is not due to America, for sure.
@MisuseCase @mpsi @aral @element
Well that’s a case of the tail wagging the dog because the US is merely the modern day iteration of the British empire. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. -
@prma It sounds like it might be a little different from the relationship between Mastodon and ActivityPub but okay.
@MisuseCase Well activitypub is the protocol. So is matrix.
My point is that matrix without element could be a very viable solution in a few years. Maybe not just right now. -
@Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind What kind of hardware are you posting from?
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@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element We won't become independent if we keep treating anything that happens in the US as some kind of the only possible future for ourselves.
And that is what I advocate even in this thread.
@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
One’s intentions can be noble while still adopting the wrong strategies to achieve them.I used to use Western Europe as a good example of the many ways we could be better but now that example is fading.
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@freediverx @aral @element Capital is just one of the resources that are controlled by the political elite (or political body of citizens in actually democratic countries), and which can be used by them for their gains. At least this is my point of view.
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@SuperDicq quick question: do you know if this includes the apk distributed on their website? i know it complains about lack of google play services but is that just a hardcoded thing on that build or does it actually have google play services (i assume its probably the latter)
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@freediverx @aral @element Capital is just one of the resources that are controlled by the political elite (or political body of citizens in actually democratic countries), and which can be used by them for their gains. At least this is my point of view.
@freediverx @aral @element Let's talk some more about China - I happen to know a little bit about this country from my personal experience of living there for quite a long time. Capital in China is clearly subordinated to the decisions of the Communist Party. There is simply no way that pure "capital" will give anyone political power there. In the contrary, there are many examples of successful "capitalists" being removed from any political influence just because the Party said so.
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@freediverx @aral @element Let's talk some more about China - I happen to know a little bit about this country from my personal experience of living there for quite a long time. Capital in China is clearly subordinated to the decisions of the Communist Party. There is simply no way that pure "capital" will give anyone political power there. In the contrary, there are many examples of successful "capitalists" being removed from any political influence just because the Party said so.
@freediverx @aral @element No capitalist in China wields any influence over the actions of the police, unless the CPC sees their actions as aligned with its own goals.
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@sotolf @LukefromDC @aral @element
I don’t recall using the word “trust”. I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt given the apparent ideology of their founder and the company’s track record for security and privacy.I would readily change my stance in the face of evidence to the contrary. I certainly don’t support their branching out into AI.
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Lots of insults, zero facts or arguments
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@freediverx @aral @element Let's talk some more about China - I happen to know a little bit about this country from my personal experience of living there for quite a long time. Capital in China is clearly subordinated to the decisions of the Communist Party. There is simply no way that pure "capital" will give anyone political power there. In the contrary, there are many examples of successful "capitalists" being removed from any political influence just because the Party said so.
@mpsi @aral @element
Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US. -
@Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind Who made your laptop? Who made the parts in your laptop?
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@kravietz
those alternatives make no sense, but I guess you already know it
TBH I don't know when you can start saying france is fascist (US is falling more blattantly, even though our gov follow them at every step)
what france is though is plain and simple : colonialist and white supremacist (or tries to be at least), and I can't see how taking their money isn't helping crushing humanitarian views, from domestic or international point of view (think palestine...)Interesting, so whose money would you be keen to take? Chinese? Russian? Iranian? Venezuelan maybe? Who's the new "anti-colonialist" power today?
@aral@mastodon.ar.al
@element@mastodon.matrix.org @ahltorp@mastodon.nu -
@kravietz @couscous @aral @element @ahltorp
I see it that opponents view it as "blood money" that poisons the project, and supporters see it as "the police/military have these fuckloads of money, might as well have them go to some commons"
now, is "tapping MIC budgets for a good cause" enough to outweigh "selling your services to the oppressor"?
two things can be true at once, and there's an (at least perceived) risk of the project getting too chummy with the violence-dispensing institutions
Granted that Mastodon is funded by EU and EU is part funded by France and other - using your logic - "blood money", you and everyone else here (except for me, because I'm on Akkoma) directly benefits from "blood money". At least that's how I perceive it. Your logic, not mine.
@couscous@mamot.fr @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org @ahltorp@mastodon.nu
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Lots of insults, zero facts or arguments
