Here is the cold water.
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The idea that slickers in big diverse cities have nothing but contempt for bumkins has been used to excellent effect in dividing and conquering otherwise nearly identical groups of people.
To the extent that cities have an advantage at being enlightened on these issues it's more demographic than a matter of values.
@futurebird I grew up near enough to the poconos/appalachians to realize late in life that the “hillbilly” narrative was vigorously and intentionally spread to erode coal-union support.
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The idea that slickers in big diverse cities have nothing but contempt for bumkins has been used to excellent effect in dividing and conquering otherwise nearly identical groups of people.
To the extent that cities have an advantage at being enlightened on these issues it's more demographic than a matter of values.
@futurebird there’s even a countervailing demographic force—cities have a lot of diversity, but it’s possible to live in one and only regularly interact with “your own kind”. That’s often not economically or socially possible in a small town, because there’s only one or two plumbers or electricians or dentists and everyone goes to the same school. So there may be less diversity, but what diversity there is, everyone works with regularly.
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@futurebird I grew up near enough to the poconos/appalachians to realize late in life that the “hillbilly” narrative was vigorously and intentionally spread to erode coal-union support.
@tikaro @futurebird going to high school in Charlotte, NC with people complaining about rednecks and hillbillies before going to a big NASCAR race they were looking forward-to like "Do you not realize how ridiculous you sound to anyone who knows where NASCAR came-from!?"
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@tikaro @futurebird going to high school in Charlotte, NC with people complaining about rednecks and hillbillies before going to a big NASCAR race they were looking forward-to like "Do you not realize how ridiculous you sound to anyone who knows where NASCAR came-from!?"
@epilonious @tikaro @futurebird
I had to look it up. Wikipedia says NASCAR came from moonshine runners during prohibition. Is that the right answer?
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@bjc @futurebird "Flyover country" 🤮
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@bjc @futurebird bigotry tends to be more complex in a more complex place and NYC is by far the most overrated city in the US (LA can compete, but it's not a real city).
Coming from Europe, I had this idea of rural = clean air, fresh food, pleasant people. I was shocked to see the opposite when I moved to rural midwest. W/ my heritage, I'm used to being the only POC in the room but there, it really made me uneasy. If you interact with fewer ppl, one bigot has a bigger impact on your day.
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This works in similar, but not exactly the same way with other kinds of bigotry. NYC is so full of gay people that it's less homophobic.
And cities can be educational. You (could) learn to get along with people by being around them. Not everyone will, but it's much harder to have, for example, a reasonable view of trans people if you've never met any one who is trans.
Also, people who are bigoted are much more shy about "expressing themselves" when they are in a diverse environment.
@futurebird Some years ago, I went to a research talk on ‘backstage racism’ — surveying (white) students at a range of universities about how often they heard racist comments (spoiler: all the time, everywhere) and the social cost of vocally objecting (‘it’s a joke’, ‘why are you defending them?’ — this was the pre-woke era). It was eye-opening and depressing, because of course people rarely say racist things around ME, so I had implicitly assumed people didn’t say them at all.
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This works in similar, but not exactly the same way with other kinds of bigotry. NYC is so full of gay people that it's less homophobic.
And cities can be educational. You (could) learn to get along with people by being around them. Not everyone will, but it's much harder to have, for example, a reasonable view of trans people if you've never met any one who is trans.
Also, people who are bigoted are much more shy about "expressing themselves" when they are in a diverse environment.
@futurebird But the flip side, of course, is exactly this point — it’s an argument for diverse, inclusive higher ed. It’s the opportunity (no guarantees, obvs) to meet people from a variety of backgrounds and with a range of presentations and evolve their views of each other, as well as to spend a lot of time in spaces where there is social disapprobation to expressing bigoted views. [Which is presumably why broad access to higher ed is under such concerted attack.]
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The idea that slickers in big diverse cities have nothing but contempt for bumkins has been used to excellent effect in dividing and conquering otherwise nearly identical groups of people.
To the extent that cities have an advantage at being enlightened on these issues it's more demographic than a matter of values.
I heard a comedian once explaining an encounter in the country.
"Oh, you're from NYC? You must think I'm some kind of country asshole."
"No, I think that you'd be an asshole in any setting."The he said he proceeded to getting his ass kicked.
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Here is the cold water. Or maybe it's a hot take.
White people in say NYC are not less racist than those in rural PA. It's really about the same.
So then, why is NYC seen as much less racist place to be?
The difference is very basic: there are more Black people, and people of every race.
This is why I dislike it so much when liberals go off on how "backwards" they think their country counterparts must be. Having been there and having been here I don't see a very big difference.
@futurebird NYC is not less racist than Rural PA.
But if you live in NYC, the ability to find someone(s) who looks/acts/thinks like you to go "That interaction was fucked-up, right?" is WAY easier.
Sometimes it might not go the way one thinks ("They may or may not be a *ist/*phobe... but they treated you like that because you were being an asshole!") but that perspective from a similar background will ALWAYS be heeded faster, and that's good because cities are dense. Less room/time to learn.
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@futurebird NYC is not less racist than Rural PA.
But if you live in NYC, the ability to find someone(s) who looks/acts/thinks like you to go "That interaction was fucked-up, right?" is WAY easier.
Sometimes it might not go the way one thinks ("They may or may not be a *ist/*phobe... but they treated you like that because you were being an asshole!") but that perspective from a similar background will ALWAYS be heeded faster, and that's good because cities are dense. Less room/time to learn.
@futurebird one of the blessings/curses of the Internet is now even rural farmers can talk to some folks from Inner City NYC and be like "I feel bad about how I interacted with a neighbor that is different than me, Which parts of this were the *ism/*phobia and which parts were just me being an asshole? I feel like growing to be Less Of Either takes different approaches so I need to level-set."
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@epilonious @tikaro @futurebird
I had to look it up. Wikipedia says NASCAR came from moonshine runners during prohibition. Is that the right answer?
@Phosphenes @tikaro @futurebird yes.
And moonshiners were hillbillies/rednecks that were FIERCELY anti government.
They basically bought and souped-up their cars to be able to outrun the feds... And then they started racing each other to see who could build a better shine runner and drive it better... And then when prohibition ended there were all these really fast cars and really good drivers and...
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