So I'm having a "This is why we still use Fortran" moment today.
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I wonder sometimes if the people in positions of authority and influence, writing textbooks like this, if they ever deal with software of consequence? I don't expect every senior CS professor to have worked on DO-138C qualified avionics software for example. But it would be nice if the field as a whole taught students that bad engineering kills people and you need to take quality and safety seriously, at least for the duration of the students' education. Take your work seriously and do your best to avoid shipping shoddy, dangerous code. Have some standards and a conscience. #MinimumViableEthics
@arclight this was one of the first papers we read in my systems engineering course in college and it was very formative for me
https://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs240/cs240.1236/old//sp2014/readings/therac-25.pdf
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@arclight this was one of the first papers we read in my systems engineering course in college and it was very formative for me
https://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs240/cs240.1236/old//sp2014/readings/therac-25.pdf
@arclight many years later I discovered the rest of Prof. Leveson’s work and I won’t say that I made it my whole personality but it’s a lot of it
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@arclight this was one of the first papers we read in my systems engineering course in college and it was very formative for me
https://web.stanford.edu/class/archive/cs/cs240/cs240.1236/old//sp2014/readings/therac-25.pdf
@kevinr @arclight TY for reminding of this. Found a cleaner scan here btw https://sci-hub.st/10.1109/MC.1993.274940
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I wonder sometimes if the people in positions of authority and influence, writing textbooks like this, if they ever deal with software of consequence? I don't expect every senior CS professor to have worked on DO-138C qualified avionics software for example. But it would be nice if the field as a whole taught students that bad engineering kills people and you need to take quality and safety seriously, at least for the duration of the students' education. Take your work seriously and do your best to avoid shipping shoddy, dangerous code. Have some standards and a conscience. #MinimumViableEthics
@arclight in Canada anyway we have a few Software Engineering programs that attempt to teach safety concerns and consequences. In the program I did 25 years ago we have some professors who had worked on nuclear power plants, avionics and medical equipment like pacemakers.
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@nyrath APL is simultaneously genius and batshit. It's incredible what you can do with 2-3 sigils but it is cryptic as hell. It the sort of language used by people who talk to crows.
@arclight @nyrath dare I curse you with the knowledge that is LispE?
5.3 A la APL
An implementation of a full fledged Lisp interpreter with Data Structure, Pattern Programming and High level Functions with Lazy Evaluation à la Haskell. - 5.3 A la APL · naver/lispe Wiki
GitHub (github.com)
(° '* '(2 3 4) '(1 2 3 4))
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@arclight @nyrath dare I curse you with the knowledge that is LispE?
5.3 A la APL
An implementation of a full fledged Lisp interpreter with Data Structure, Pattern Programming and High level Functions with Lazy Evaluation à la Haskell. - 5.3 A la APL · naver/lispe Wiki
GitHub (github.com)
(° '* '(2 3 4) '(1 2 3 4))
I vaguely remember that "Lisp" was an acronym for "Lots of Insignificant Silly Parentheses)"
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@arclight @nyrath dare I curse you with the knowledge that is LispE?
5.3 A la APL
An implementation of a full fledged Lisp interpreter with Data Structure, Pattern Programming and High level Functions with Lazy Evaluation à la Haskell. - 5.3 A la APL · naver/lispe Wiki
GitHub (github.com)
(° '* '(2 3 4) '(1 2 3 4))
@jonocarroll @nyrath Thanks - that was very interesting, especially in the efficiency discussion in a later section.
Yes, it's definitely cursed but that's one of the strangely attractive aspects of APL. One look at APL and your immediate thought is "This cannot end well". But somehow it does, you marvel at the compactness of it all, look away for a split second, and the whole thing has evaporated from your memory and you're staring at a random string of crazy moon language again.
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@jonocarroll @nyrath Thanks - that was very interesting, especially in the efficiency discussion in a later section.
Yes, it's definitely cursed but that's one of the strangely attractive aspects of APL. One look at APL and your immediate thought is "This cannot end well". But somehow it does, you marvel at the compactness of it all, look away for a split second, and the whole thing has evaporated from your memory and you're staring at a random string of crazy moon language again.
I've heard tell that with APL source code that needs editing, it is much easier to re-type the entire piece of code as opposed to trying to just edit bits of the code.
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I've heard tell that with APL source code that needs editing, it is much easier to re-type the entire piece of code as opposed to trying to just edit bits of the code.
@nyrath @jonocarroll And good luck finding a decent set of APL keycaps for modern keyboards. I have a very nice set of new APL keycaps for an IBM Model M keyboard and a very very faint set of keycaps for modern Cherry MX style switches. I keep mulling over buying a reproduction Model M keyboard to make use of the otherwise useless keycaps but I poke at APL once every few years (props to Dyalog for keeping the language alive and having fantastic documentation and a Windows keyboard driver). Thus far I've resisted the Sunk Cost Fallacy but who knows how long I can hold out... #SendHelp #DesperatelyNeedTherapyAMovingCompanyAndABigStorageUnit
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@nyrath @jonocarroll And good luck finding a decent set of APL keycaps for modern keyboards. I have a very nice set of new APL keycaps for an IBM Model M keyboard and a very very faint set of keycaps for modern Cherry MX style switches. I keep mulling over buying a reproduction Model M keyboard to make use of the otherwise useless keycaps but I poke at APL once every few years (props to Dyalog for keeping the language alive and having fantastic documentation and a Windows keyboard driver). Thus far I've resisted the Sunk Cost Fallacy but who knows how long I can hold out... #SendHelp #DesperatelyNeedTherapyAMovingCompanyAndABigStorageUnit
@arclight @nyrath @jonocarroll
The worst part of owning a Model M is knowing that it will not wear out so you can replace it with the keyboard you really want, which is a compact model F with backlighting and QMK firmware.
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