Time for a #discord alternatives thread, for no particular reason.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

Spacebar

* Early days
* Free
* Open Source
* Self-hostable
* No E2E
* No calls (yet)
* Mod tools just like discord (soon)
* Only a web app

I'll admit this isn't a serious consideration, but deserves a call-out. Spacebar is an attempt to re-implement the discord server itself with identical API. This could be a great transitionary tool, it could plausibly mean we get all the good of Discord with none of the crap, but it's simply nowhere near ready from what I can tell.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

Stoat (née Revolt)

* Still somewhat beta
* Free
* Open Source
* Self-hostable*
* No E2E (planned)
* Calls (video planned)
* Mod tools just like discord
* Available everywhere

Stoat is the closest thing we have to a Discord killer, and is very much a discord clone, for better or worse. There's also something wonderful about seeing stuff like "femboy kingdom" among it's most popular servers, it's just so wonderfully queer coded and old-internet?

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

(stoat cont.)

Unfortunately the data sovereignty isn't there - it doesn't have E2E yet, and none of the apps support connecting to self-hosted servers.

I also have to advise caution - the folks making it seem to have their hearts in the right place, but have no true funding model plans outside of donations and a future thought of offering a nitro-a-like.

It's GPL license will likely prevent enshitification, but without E2E or improved self-hostingcompat I won't be jumping in just yet.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

And finally, Matrix. This is by far the most common suggestion I get. Especially here given the shared ethos of federation.

* Fully released
* Free
* Open Source
* Self-hostable*
* E2E
* Calls*
* Moderation*
* Supported everywhere

Matrix fills in *so* many of the requirements here, but still has issues.

You can self-host, but your homeserver has to host the full history and data in any channel that a signed up user joins. You could however not allow sign-ups, and just have channels.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

(matrix cont.) You can choose to self-host but not federate, but the major apps don't support multiple accounts, so it feels like an unfederated homeserver has quite limited use.

It's call support is currently in flux, with two methods that different apps support in different ways, plus some calls break out to external services in non-obvious ways.

It also has fundamentally weak moderation tools, at least from a community standpoint, with basically no viable equivalent to roles or scopes.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

(matrix cont.) Overall Matrix feels like a brilliant evolution on IRC, in a wonderfully old-school kind of way. Unfortunately that brings with it some goofyness and hard to understand intricacies.

Matrix is one of the few options that lets you self-host *and* still connect with all the other communities, and that's wonderful.

I want it to succeed, and it'll probably be my choice, but it's gonna take work to operate communities in it effectively.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

Here's hoping all that was useful to someone. I spent some time looking for a thread/post/blog like this when I first went searching, but couldn't find it, so here's me paying it forward for the next person.

[shoren18@mstdn.social]

@mdiluz It was helpful to me.

I’m looking to replace a few different Discord communities that operate differently, and I think Zulip might be a good fit for one, and Matrix (& Element) might be a good fit for another.

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@shoren18 glad to hear it and good luck!

[mossystone48@thehappyfamily.stream]

@mdiluz
Anything else? >:3c

Mac'n'Cheese but you use a bag of store bought elbow macaroni and a can of nacho cheese sauce.

Also I think Matrix might be worth investing some time into. I do miss IRC.

[redvalkyrie@eldritch.cafe]

@mdiluz @MossyStone48 Heck yeah

[pikario@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@mdiluz based on their website they seems to have E2E encryption (but not by default)
Thank you for your thread!

[mtothevizzah@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@mdiluz As someone who spent almost twenty years on IRC and fled the Freenode implosion in May 2021, I now sort of wish I had stuck it out with Matrix (which was hella jank almost five years ago) instead of going to Discord. I wonder how/if this will impact how we run REAC and the Advances chat this year, what a mess.

[philipdrobar@peoplemaking.games]

@mdiluz how does Threema fare?

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@philipdrobar to me Threema is more of a Signal competitor, I hadn't really considered it in the context of community building. I should really give it a try though so that opinion is more informed! Do you use it?

[mdiluz@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@philipdrobar ah I forgot it's paid too with no free tier, that also makes it kind of a hard no unfortunately for me, tho I'm sure it might work for others

[rvaweather@dmv.community]

@mdiluz Element? Or does that fall under the same category as Matrix? Also, SimpleX but I had a hard time figuring that one out.

[philipdrobar@peoplemaking.games]

@mdiluz I don't but have seen it mentioned here and there ( but yes, more as a Signal/Messenger alternative).

The payment is a hurdle, but pricing seems reasonable. As you criticized this with Stoat, I figured the cost requirement might actually give some assurance.

Again though, I haven't used it at all.

[scott@sfba.social]

@mdiluz Thank you for this valuable thread!

For what it’s worth… I have been lurking on Zulip after being introduced to it through the @CoMaps project. I have been really impressed with the quality of discussion (credit to the contributors!) and how the tool helps keep the conversations organized (threaded). I’m now testing Zulip for another nonprofit I’m involved with. I think as chat for that specific use case — mission-driven, distributed, goal-oriented collaboration — it’s a pretty great solution. Much more accessible to me than, say, Slack or Discord, which hurt my head. ‍️ I also like how Zulip lets you “resolve” threads like issues — so you can note when a discussion is over. (Threads don’t linger forever!)