an interesting thread on Bluesky about why people are choosing to build on #ATProto instead of #ActivityPubhttps://witchsky.app/profile/did:plc:rtf3bjc3w2yn4syxtm4r7jt2/post/3mfrp6tovy22g
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@julian you don't want to platform people who are unwelcoming to devs? I think the issue is that a lot of the devs who show up are also totally oblivious to how their stuff effects the network and people who use it and the implications of their code on peoples lives. So I don't think it's as easy as just us being more welcoming to builders either sadly
@liaizon@social.wake.st I don't want to platform one-sided discussion against the development of new functonality built on top of ActivityPub.
Critique is fine. It's even accepted. I'm not saying that nobody should ever disagree on implementation, design, etc.
The problem here is that the disagreements are not done on a level playing field. You have one side that has judged another without fully understanding the situation (or not having put any thought in besides "I like this person, they don't like you, and therefore you are bad"), having absolutely demonized this person from the very beginning, and you expect that person to start that uphill battle?
It's absolutely no surprise that they choose to leave instead.
It's an absolute fucking miracle that @quillmatiq@mastodon.social and @snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy are still here.
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@foolishowl that's an incredibly unhelpful read on people there tbh
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@stefan @liaizon there isnt any. its bascially the same question of why phanpy doesnt have a button to view a post in ivory.
difference is that phanpy does have a button to view the post on the home instance. but there is no home instance on atproto in that same sense. like it would mean opening the raw record on your pds
@laurenshof Yeah, this all makes sense to me, of course, it's just interesting to see some of the things that have been putting people off the fediverse starting to slowly creep in, like thinking that you need to create a "new Bluesky account" to reply.
Or a conversation I came across yesterday about how "login with your ATProto account" is too confusing, but "login with Bluesky" isn't accurate.
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@laurenshof Yeah, this all makes sense to me, of course, it's just interesting to see some of the things that have been putting people off the fediverse starting to slowly creep in, like thinking that you need to create a "new Bluesky account" to reply.
Or a conversation I came across yesterday about how "login with your ATProto account" is too confusing, but "login with Bluesky" isn't accurate.
@stefan @laurenshof have you seen the https://internethandle.org debacle yet?
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@stefan @laurenshof have you seen the https://internethandle.org debacle yet?
@liaizon Ah, I think I did, but thank you for reminding me!
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@laurenshof Yeah, this all makes sense to me, of course, it's just interesting to see some of the things that have been putting people off the fediverse starting to slowly creep in, like thinking that you need to create a "new Bluesky account" to reply.
Or a conversation I came across yesterday about how "login with your ATProto account" is too confusing, but "login with Bluesky" isn't accurate.
Also, does either of you know how things work in terms of data being in/out of sync between the various PDSes/AppViews?
Eg. is the "missing replies" problem likely to occur in the Atmosphere as well?
Other than, of course, due to accounts being banned on some level.
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Also, does either of you know how things work in terms of data being in/out of sync between the various PDSes/AppViews?
Eg. is the "missing replies" problem likely to occur in the Atmosphere as well?
Other than, of course, due to accounts being banned on some level.
@stefan@stefanbohacek.online you don't miss replies if you store the entirety of the BlueSky network on your relay (apologies if I use the wrong term), or use theirs?
But the solution to not having to store the entirety of bluesky is to store a subset... and if you do that, then... absolutely you'll start missing things.
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@stefan@stefanbohacek.online you don't miss replies if you store the entirety of the BlueSky network on your relay (apologies if I use the wrong term), or use theirs?
But the solution to not having to store the entirety of bluesky is to store a subset... and if you do that, then... absolutely you'll start missing things.
@julian Right, so if different AppViews use different relays (looking at https://atp.fyi/network), there is a potential then that people will miss some replies, even if only temporarily?
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@laurenshof Yeah, this all makes sense to me, of course, it's just interesting to see some of the things that have been putting people off the fediverse starting to slowly creep in, like thinking that you need to create a "new Bluesky account" to reply.
Or a conversation I came across yesterday about how "login with your ATProto account" is too confusing, but "login with Bluesky" isn't accurate.
@laurenshof @liaizon Oh yeah, found another one.
Trying to log into witchsky.app. Need to request a security code.
Email comes in: "Sign in to Bluesky". Hm.
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@laurenshof @liaizon Oh yeah, found another one.
Trying to log into witchsky.app. Need to request a security code.
Email comes in: "Sign in to Bluesky". Hm.
@stefan @laurenshof again this is just a fork of the bluesky client by a single person. Try the front end of blacksky web with your bluesky account to see I think they cleaned that up quite a bit more
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@stefan @laurenshof again this is just a fork of the bluesky client by a single person. Try the front end of blacksky web with your bluesky account to see I think they cleaned that up quite a bit more
Well the email comes from noreply@bsky.social. But what am I signing into, the app? In that case it should say Witchsky.
Or am I logging into Bluesky's PDS? AppView?
It's just a confusing user experience, logging into Witchsky and getting an email about logging into Bluesky.
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Well the email comes from noreply@bsky.social. But what am I signing into, the app? In that case it should say Witchsky.
Or am I logging into Bluesky's PDS? AppView?
It's just a confusing user experience, logging into Witchsky and getting an email about logging into Bluesky.
@stefan what do you mean by `the email`? did you sign up for a new account?
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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@stefan what do you mean by `the email`? did you sign up for a new account?
@liaizon No, the email I was referring to here: https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/116143790170774372
I'd expect it to say "Sign in to Witchsky".
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@liaizon No, the email I was referring to here: https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/116143790170774372
I'd expect it to say "Sign in to Witchsky".
@stefan hmm here are both login screens, one from witchsky and one from blacksky. witchsky is currently just a client app. so there is no such thing as a witchsky account. but blacksky has all the different parts of the network. so you can sign into your blacksky account with their own client app also called blacksky BUT you can also sign into the blacksky client with your bluesky account. yeah this all gets confusing fast...
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@stefan hmm here are both login screens, one from witchsky and one from blacksky. witchsky is currently just a client app. so there is no such thing as a witchsky account. but blacksky has all the different parts of the network. so you can sign into your blacksky account with their own client app also called blacksky BUT you can also sign into the blacksky client with your bluesky account. yeah this all gets confusing fast...
@liaizon Honestly, this does make me feel a bit better. As the Atmosphere continues to decentralize, maybe "pick a server" won't seem as confusing and daunting!
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@stefan hmm here are both login screens, one from witchsky and one from blacksky. witchsky is currently just a client app. so there is no such thing as a witchsky account. but blacksky has all the different parts of the network. so you can sign into your blacksky account with their own client app also called blacksky BUT you can also sign into the blacksky client with your bluesky account. yeah this all gets confusing fast...
@liaizon@social.wake.st alternative ATProto stacks speeding head-first into instance choosing.
Mm... It'd be sad if it wasn't so funny.
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@liaizon Honestly, this does make me feel a bit better. As the Atmosphere continues to decentralize, maybe "pick a server" won't seem as confusing and daunting!
@stefan@stefanbohacek.online I remember when you first signed up for hotmail you could choose from a number of vanity domains. Or maybe that was MSN... anyway.
It's not really a novel idea, we've all just collectively forgotten
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@liaizon Honestly, this does make me feel a bit better. As the Atmosphere continues to decentralize, maybe "pick a server" won't seem as confusing and daunting!
@stefan this is sorta my favorite optimistic hot take... that eventually down the line the atmosphere just keeps adding new layers of complexity and then we start to look more appealing again
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@stefan this is sorta my favorite optimistic hot take... that eventually down the line the atmosphere just keeps adding new layers of complexity and then we start to look more appealing again
@liaizon Yes, plus things like FASPs and Fediscovery, plus various UX improvements that are already in the pipeline, all of this will make things a lot simpler.
Fun stuff to look forward to!
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