I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies.
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek 100% this!
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek does that even include roads?
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek@v.st that's not very patriotic (yall were the worst european country to collaborate with on energy policy in a way i will never forgive)
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@quixoticgeek@v.st that's not very patriotic (yall were the worst european country to collaborate with on energy policy in a way i will never forgive)
@quixoticgeek@v.st and that was the "green" activists! can't imagine what the actual capitalists yap on about
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek Do these people know how cheap solar panels are even without subsidies? And that you can use them to charge an EV for free?
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
It's about 6 trillion per year globally.
Please fact check me. -
I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek I swear tf. See also "externalised" costs of (combustion engine) driving.
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek And even if it were true that renewables were only possible due to subsidies, so fucking what? They still allow for energy independence, fewer wars and partnering with genocidal regimes because of said independence, power grid redundancies, and, of course, are helping reduce/slow the effect of climate, the greatest existential threat humanity has ever faced.
“But the true cost isn’t factored in!”
You’re right: we don’t know how many WILL die for oil, climate, and profits. -
I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek Note that you didn't disconfess the first claim, but you just affirmed that other forms of energy are subsidized.
Now that can be interesting: let me claim that any form of energy get subsidies.
We aren't, as final users, paying 'directly' for all of its cost.
And it's already so costly for us! At least for me.I'd summarize that anyway the problem isn't the direct cost of energy, or the indirect cost of plants and production. What's more relevant is the footprint it leaves.
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@quixoticgeek Do these people know how cheap solar panels are even without subsidies? And that you can use them to charge an EV for free?
@mkoek that assumes you can put solar panels up where you live and run a cable to your car. I live 8 floors up. I can't run a cable to a car from there.
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@quixoticgeek Note that you didn't disconfess the first claim, but you just affirmed that other forms of energy are subsidized.
Now that can be interesting: let me claim that any form of energy get subsidies.
We aren't, as final users, paying 'directly' for all of its cost.
And it's already so costly for us! At least for me.I'd summarize that anyway the problem isn't the direct cost of energy, or the indirect cost of plants and production. What's more relevant is the footprint it leaves.
@luc0x61 what country are you in ?
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@cockneylaurie @quixoticgeek Cars don’t pay their massive social costs and so are very heavily subsidised. #Congestion #Pollution
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@luc0x61 what country are you in ?
@quixoticgeek I'm in Italy. Is that relevant?
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek Given the cost of renewables arguably being cheaper than fossil fuels, those same subsidies likely would go further in green energy
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@mkoek that assumes you can put solar panels up where you live and run a cable to your car. I live 8 floors up. I can't run a cable to a car from there.
@quixoticgeek @mkoek tbf, you personally might not be able to, but if part of the rent from everyone in the building went to it, the landlord could likely easily fit solar on the roof
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@quixoticgeek @mkoek tbf, you personally might not be able to, but if part of the rent from everyone in the building went to it, the landlord could likely easily fit solar on the roof
@disorderlyf @mkoek still wouldn't be able to charge cars directly off it. The only way would be for the landlord to sell the power to the grid and give some of the money to us. Which is unlikely.
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@disorderlyf @mkoek still wouldn't be able to charge cars directly off it. The only way would be for the landlord to sell the power to the grid and give some of the money to us. Which is unlikely.
@quixoticgeek @mkoek I'll give you that landlords are typically not to be trusted with this sort of thing and I would mostly require legal mandate to expect it to happen. Although, I suspect while not currently probable that the buildings also having charging stations that are charged partially by the building's solar are technically possible. Hell, there are already apartment buildings with charging stations built it. I just haven't seen apartment buildings with both yet.
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek Also:
"Renewables are useless because when there's no wind or sun we don't have power"And at the same time:
"Let's store lots of fossil fuels in big storage facilities to use in the moments we're not pulling it out of the ground."
In the Netherlands we are able to store approx. 120 billion KWh of gas. Let's see how useless renewables are the moment we get the same amount of electricity-storage
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@quixoticgeek Also:
"Renewables are useless because when there's no wind or sun we don't have power"And at the same time:
"Let's store lots of fossil fuels in big storage facilities to use in the moments we're not pulling it out of the ground."
In the Netherlands we are able to store approx. 120 billion KWh of gas. Let's see how useless renewables are the moment we get the same amount of electricity-storage
@peter_slwk that's 120 TWh. Which is about the same as the annual usage of electricity... Blimey.
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I saw a comment the other day about how renewables and EVs are only viable cos of subsidies. I wish it was better known by the general population just how much governments subsidise the fossil fuels industry. In .NL it's something like €40bn a year. Now imagine if we spent that on district heating, and public transport, and heat pumps? And actually built the offshore wind farms that noone tendered for.
This all seems so fucking obvious.
@quixoticgeek And the timber indistry ad well.
