It is 222 A.D.
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@mgorny @CharlotteEowyn Can I quote you on that?
@drwho @CharlotteEowyn, sure.
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@nelson @CharlotteEowyn i don't think it was OP's intent to create a full list of every historical trans person
@ratsnakegames @nelson @CharlotteEowyn Oh, you're a trans ally? Name every trans person
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@ratsnakegames @nelson @CharlotteEowyn Oh, you're a trans ally? Name every trans person
@chamomile @ratsnakegames @CharlotteEowyn
uhhh, luna, uhmm.... amber
that's gotta be like 32% of them
/j
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@CharlotteEowyn wait, wasn't Public Universal Friend an enby?
@dhfir @CharlotteEowyn I believe so. They maintained the person with their dead name had in fact died, and they were sent from heaven as someone neither male nor female.
You may be confused, because the person with their dead name was assigned female at birth, but displayed a number of behaviors that people of their time ascribed to males.
And you can be "neither male nor female", assigned one or the other at birth, and not be trans anything. Some enbys do not identify as trans: after all trans comes from a root word meaning "on the other side".
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@mgorny @CharlotteEowyn Thank you kindly.
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The year is 2026, you are me. Held off chemically transitioning because you want a more androgenious/feminine appearance after 30+ years of trying to just keep yourself from being too masculine. An engineer who is now lied about and threatened by social media misinformation. Transitioning is new and experimental they say while you have access to historical and scientific evidence to the contrary.
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It is 222 A.D. You are the transgender Empress Elagabalus, "call me not a man for I am a woman". Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1776. You are "Public Universal Friend", a transmasculine Quaker. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1906. You are Karl M. Baer, a trans man undergoing sex reassignment. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1930. You are Lili Elbe. Transitioning is new and experimental. (to be fair you did get a uterus transplant.)
It is 1966. You are in Compton's Cafeteria with a bunch of other trans people when the owners call the cops to throw you all out. You riot. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1969. You are Marsha "pay it no mind" Johnson. You are in a mob-run gay bar when the cops attack. You throw a brick. There is a bit of a scuffle. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 2026. You are a transgender adult or child listening to the NYT and British Guardian claim this is the first generation anyone has tried transitioning in. Transitioning is new and experimental.
@CharlotteEowyn I'm feeling like Doctor Manhattan.
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It is 222 A.D. You are the transgender Empress Elagabalus, "call me not a man for I am a woman". Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1776. You are "Public Universal Friend", a transmasculine Quaker. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1906. You are Karl M. Baer, a trans man undergoing sex reassignment. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1930. You are Lili Elbe. Transitioning is new and experimental. (to be fair you did get a uterus transplant.)
It is 1966. You are in Compton's Cafeteria with a bunch of other trans people when the owners call the cops to throw you all out. You riot. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1969. You are Marsha "pay it no mind" Johnson. You are in a mob-run gay bar when the cops attack. You throw a brick. There is a bit of a scuffle. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 2026. You are a transgender adult or child listening to the NYT and British Guardian claim this is the first generation anyone has tried transitioning in. Transitioning is new and experimental.
@CharlotteEowyn Bookmarked for future reference.
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@CharlotteEowyn i did a relatively thorough media search and purported surprise at the existence of trans people crops up every eighteen months back to the invention of newspapers
@miriamrobern @CharlotteEowyn that's a great demonstration of the epistemology of ignorance, whereby cis white people can have a personal revelation once or twice per generation, every generation forever without ever having to actually change anything.
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It is 222 A.D. You are the transgender Empress Elagabalus, "call me not a man for I am a woman". Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1776. You are "Public Universal Friend", a transmasculine Quaker. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1906. You are Karl M. Baer, a trans man undergoing sex reassignment. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1930. You are Lili Elbe. Transitioning is new and experimental. (to be fair you did get a uterus transplant.)
It is 1966. You are in Compton's Cafeteria with a bunch of other trans people when the owners call the cops to throw you all out. You riot. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1969. You are Marsha "pay it no mind" Johnson. You are in a mob-run gay bar when the cops attack. You throw a brick. There is a bit of a scuffle. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 2026. You are a transgender adult or child listening to the NYT and British Guardian claim this is the first generation anyone has tried transitioning in. Transitioning is new and experimental.
it is 1990. a TERF comes out with a book describing India's hijra as "effeminate, third-gendered homosexual men." that book conveniently ignores the fact that some hijra take DIY hormones and actively campaign for recognition as women, because transitioning is new and experimental.
it is 2014. the Indian Supreme Court rules that all hijra are third-gendered, neither male nor female, citing said TERF as evidence for their decision. recognizing any hijra as women would, supposedly, violate their Constitutional rights. after all, transitioning is new and experimental.
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It is 222 A.D. You are the transgender Empress Elagabalus, "call me not a man for I am a woman". Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1776. You are "Public Universal Friend", a transmasculine Quaker. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1906. You are Karl M. Baer, a trans man undergoing sex reassignment. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1930. You are Lili Elbe. Transitioning is new and experimental. (to be fair you did get a uterus transplant.)
It is 1966. You are in Compton's Cafeteria with a bunch of other trans people when the owners call the cops to throw you all out. You riot. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1969. You are Marsha "pay it no mind" Johnson. You are in a mob-run gay bar when the cops attack. You throw a brick. There is a bit of a scuffle. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 2026. You are a transgender adult or child listening to the NYT and British Guardian claim this is the first generation anyone has tried transitioning in. Transitioning is new and experimental.
@CharlotteEowyn I was reading this whilst opening a Brooklyn Brewery "The Stonewall Inn IPA".
It is neither new nor experimental.
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It is 222 A.D. You are the transgender Empress Elagabalus, "call me not a man for I am a woman". Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1776. You are "Public Universal Friend", a transmasculine Quaker. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1906. You are Karl M. Baer, a trans man undergoing sex reassignment. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1930. You are Lili Elbe. Transitioning is new and experimental. (to be fair you did get a uterus transplant.)
It is 1966. You are in Compton's Cafeteria with a bunch of other trans people when the owners call the cops to throw you all out. You riot. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1969. You are Marsha "pay it no mind" Johnson. You are in a mob-run gay bar when the cops attack. You throw a brick. There is a bit of a scuffle. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 2026. You are a transgender adult or child listening to the NYT and British Guardian claim this is the first generation anyone has tried transitioning in. Transitioning is new and experimental.
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus was not a transgender woman.
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Marcus Aurelius Antoninus was not a transgender woman.
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@floralia The association with the enarei alone would be more than sufficient for me...
But here's a history video.
Anyways I have too many comments on this to debate it; but I generally take the perspective that if someone says to call them a lady... I'm going to go ahead and do it. I also don't believe in erasing transgender history.
In fact I might go the other way: prove to me that any given person isn't queer. It's just as valid.
If you want to be a strict historian you can probably make a strong argument that the answer is maybe:
But there's a lot of very relatable very specific stuff in her story that sounds very trans.
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@floralia The association with the enarei alone would be more than sufficient for me...
But here's a history video.
Anyways I have too many comments on this to debate it; but I generally take the perspective that if someone says to call them a lady... I'm going to go ahead and do it. I also don't believe in erasing transgender history.
In fact I might go the other way: prove to me that any given person isn't queer. It's just as valid.
If you want to be a strict historian you can probably make a strong argument that the answer is maybe:
But there's a lot of very relatable very specific stuff in her story that sounds very trans.
@floralia and if that's not convincing enough:
Read that. Are you a trans person? I assume so. Seriously read it.
"She would ask philosophers and men of the greatest dignity whether or not they and their youth had experienced what she was experiencing."
And then read the very specific accounts that sound very very relatable to this day.
There were a lot of ways you could slander someone back then. I absolutely doubt they would slander them with very specific accounts that sound a lot like 90% of the trans women I've ever met.
I too spend most of my life wondering if anyone ever felt like I did.
So no she was trans. How many of us have been erased from history?
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@CharlotteEowyn No fuck you.
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@floralia The association with the enarei alone would be more than sufficient for me...
But here's a history video.
Anyways I have too many comments on this to debate it; but I generally take the perspective that if someone says to call them a lady... I'm going to go ahead and do it. I also don't believe in erasing transgender history.
In fact I might go the other way: prove to me that any given person isn't queer. It's just as valid.
If you want to be a strict historian you can probably make a strong argument that the answer is maybe:
But there's a lot of very relatable very specific stuff in her story that sounds very trans.
@CharlotteEowyn Cassius Deo was allies with the guy who fucking killed him. Fuck your revisionist bullshit.
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@floralia and if that's not convincing enough:
Read that. Are you a trans person? I assume so. Seriously read it.
"She would ask philosophers and men of the greatest dignity whether or not they and their youth had experienced what she was experiencing."
And then read the very specific accounts that sound very very relatable to this day.
There were a lot of ways you could slander someone back then. I absolutely doubt they would slander them with very specific accounts that sound a lot like 90% of the trans women I've ever met.
I too spend most of my life wondering if anyone ever felt like I did.
So no she was trans. How many of us have been erased from history?
@CharlotteEowyn Trans Hotep.
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@cygnathreadbare @CharlotteEowyn Ah, excellent, I was going to bring up Antonio de Erauso if no one else had. I went to the library looking for books about Basques, and this fascinating life story was what I found.
@jendefer @CharlotteEowyn I discovered him through less formal means: the game Uncharted Waters: New Horizons included "Catalina de Erantzo" among the 6 playable characters, a woman who steals a ship from the spanish navy to look for her fiancee and her brother who died in a Portuguese attack. I always picked her and one day I googled if she was based on a real person and.. kinda, the game's character is an alternate (and a bit less ruthless) cisfem version of him.
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It is 222 A.D. You are the transgender Empress Elagabalus, "call me not a man for I am a woman". Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1776. You are "Public Universal Friend", a transmasculine Quaker. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1906. You are Karl M. Baer, a trans man undergoing sex reassignment. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1930. You are Lili Elbe. Transitioning is new and experimental. (to be fair you did get a uterus transplant.)
It is 1966. You are in Compton's Cafeteria with a bunch of other trans people when the owners call the cops to throw you all out. You riot. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1969. You are Marsha "pay it no mind" Johnson. You are in a mob-run gay bar when the cops attack. You throw a brick. There is a bit of a scuffle. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 2026. You are a transgender adult or child listening to the NYT and British Guardian claim this is the first generation anyone has tried transitioning in. Transitioning is new and experimental.
Some other great trans men of history:
It is 1960. You are Michael Dillon/Lobzang Jivaka, a doctor in the British Navy turned Tibetan Buddhist monk. You were the first trans man to undergo phalloplasty, and among the first trans Westerners to be ordained by a Buddhist monastery. Transitioning is new and experimental.
It is 1991. You are Lou Sullivan. You spent years campaigning on behalf of gay trans people, after being denied gender-affirming care on the basis of your homosexuality. You founded what would become the longest-running FTM group in the world. You are the first reported trans man to have AIDS. Your work will ultimately normalize trans homosexuality. Transitioning is new and experimental.
