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English speakers of the fedi.

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devsoftwareinterface
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  • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

    Iff English is your second language, how are these verbs tusually translated to *your* language in software interfaces?

    hugu@masto.donte.com.brH This user is from outside of this forum
    hugu@masto.donte.com.brH This user is from outside of this forum
    hugu@masto.donte.com.br
    wrote last edited by
    #68

    @eltonfc o infinitivo em inglês seria "to close", certo?

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    • jleedev@mastodon.sdf.orgJ jleedev@mastodon.sdf.org

      @eltonfc

      "why is the software calling me a dolt?" https://folklore.org/Do_It.html

      The 1992 mac hig doesn't address this directly but does label a button "Don't Save".

      On the one hand, it can't be the infinitive since it doesn't have "to", but I had to look up what the "plain form" or "base form" of the verb is even called.

      The 1992 hig calls them verbs or actions, which makes more sense than claiming that it really is imperative.

      dcporter@better.bostonD This user is from outside of this forum
      dcporter@better.bostonD This user is from outside of this forum
      dcporter@better.boston
      wrote last edited by
      #69

      @jleedev @eltonfc The intention of these menus and button titles was definitely imperative. I'm surprised that there's the two options are so close – and I'm extra surprised and very intrigued that ESL folks are reporting 2x in favor of infinitive.

      jleedev@mastodon.sdf.orgJ 1 Reply Last reply
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      • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

        @jjj what motivates de question is that in English, the infinitive and imperative forms are identical. In Portuguese, they are translated in the infinitive: "Fechar" instead of "Feche" or "Fecha"

        malcontato@bolha.oneM This user is from outside of this forum
        malcontato@bolha.oneM This user is from outside of this forum
        malcontato@bolha.one
        wrote last edited by
        #70

        @eltonfc @jjj “infinitive and imperative forms are identical” apenas nas flexões verbais em que acontece o bare infinitive, não? Que é quando precedido de verbos modais ou alguns verbos específicos. Eu aprendi que exceto esses casos a flexão infinitiva exige preposição “to”

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        • dcporter@better.bostonD dcporter@better.boston

          @jleedev @eltonfc The intention of these menus and button titles was definitely imperative. I'm surprised that there's the two options are so close – and I'm extra surprised and very intrigued that ESL folks are reporting 2x in favor of infinitive.

          jleedev@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jleedev@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jleedev@mastodon.sdf.org
          wrote last edited by
          #71

          @dcporter @eltonfc It makes me wonder, outside the computer what verb form is used for a to-do list in various languages.

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          • leonardof@bertha.socialL leonardof@bertha.social

            @eltonfc quer resposta em português também??

            eltonfc@bertha.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
            eltonfc@bertha.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
            eltonfc@bertha.social
            wrote last edited by
            #72

            @leonardof arrgh limitação do Moshidon que não mostra o idioma, só o botão para mudar

            leonardof@bertha.socialL 1 Reply Last reply
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            • J jjj@functional.cafe

              @eltonfc I understand that. As I wrote it is the same in Swedish. I don't understand what you mean with how they are usually translated. That would depend on the original text, I can't say how often either is used in general.

              eltonfc@bertha.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              eltonfc@bertha.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              eltonfc@bertha.social
              wrote last edited by
              #73

              @jjj my point is that the same string "Close" is translated to Swedish in the imperative form and to Portuguese in the infinitive form. I'm curious how it's done in other languages.

              J 1 Reply Last reply
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              • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

                @leonardof arrgh limitação do Moshidon que não mostra o idioma, só o botão para mudar

                leonardof@bertha.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                leonardof@bertha.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                leonardof@bertha.social
                wrote last edited by
                #74

                @eltonfc 😅

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                • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

                  English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?

                  Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?

                  #Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui

                  wordshaper@weatherishappening.networkW This user is from outside of this forum
                  wordshaper@weatherishappening.networkW This user is from outside of this forum
                  wordshaper@weatherishappening.network
                  wrote last edited by
                  #75

                  @eltonfc tbh as a native english speaker I've gotten to the point where I see those words in menus as *nouns* rather than verbs. (I may have been computering too long, that's a valid observation)

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                  • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

                    @jjj my point is that the same string "Close" is translated to Swedish in the imperative form and to Portuguese in the infinitive form. I'm curious how it's done in other languages.

                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                    jjj@functional.cafe
                    wrote last edited by
                    #76

                    @eltonfc Ok, I understand now, I think.

                    The results of your polls are very interesting and surprising to me. I didn't know of this difference.

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                    • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

                      English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?

                      Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?

                      #Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui

                      drahardja@sfba.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                      drahardja@sfba.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                      drahardja@sfba.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #77

                      @eltonfc I think most verbs in menus are intended to be imperative, with whatever is selected being the noun (eg copy *this*).

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                      • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

                        English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?

                        Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?

                        #Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui

                        penguin42@mastodon.org.ukP This user is from outside of this forum
                        penguin42@mastodon.org.ukP This user is from outside of this forum
                        penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
                        wrote last edited by
                        #78

                        @eltonfc I don't think in either imperative or infinitive etc - as a native speaker, I just think in terms of knowing the thing I want to do is if I click on the option with that name.

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                        • eltonfc@bertha.socialE eltonfc@bertha.social

                          English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?

                          Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?

                          #Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui

                          quixoticgeek@social.v.stQ This user is from outside of this forum
                          quixoticgeek@social.v.stQ This user is from outside of this forum
                          quixoticgeek@social.v.st
                          wrote last edited by
                          #79

                          @eltonfc needs an option "native speaker, doesn't understand the question"

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                          • lritter@mastodon.gamedev.placeL lritter@mastodon.gamedev.place

                            @dveditz @eltonfc a lot of these menu options lead to places though, dialogs. so you're figuratively entering a conversation. a command line rarely does that. your instructions are expected to be complete.

                            dveditz@infosec.exchangeD This user is from outside of this forum
                            dveditz@infosec.exchangeD This user is from outside of this forum
                            dveditz@infosec.exchange
                            wrote last edited by
                            #80

                            @lritter @eltonfc

                            fair point. in English those items use the imperative followed by "..." (an incomplete command?). An infinitive would make sense in that context and I could imagine a "To Print" or similar menu, but I've never seen one. The English form used is imperative.

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                            • mattdm@hachyderm.ioM mattdm@hachyderm.io

                              @virtulis @eltonfc

                              To me:

                              "Rename file [to a name I will provide]."

                              I wonder how much this has to do with growing up with command-line interfaces vs graphical ones.

                              zygous@toot.communityZ This user is from outside of this forum
                              zygous@toot.communityZ This user is from outside of this forum
                              zygous@toot.community
                              wrote last edited by
                              #81

                              @mattdm @virtulis @eltonfc

                              To me, a Brit, it’s [I want to] Rename File. I had to ponder this, though, because I genuinely wasn’t sure how I think about it, at first. Perhaps with a GUI I’m hoping to do something, whereas with a CLI I can be more confident and use the imperative 😆

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