Let's talk about airplanes and flying with some polls.
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With oil prices under pressure again some airlines are cutting shorter flights. In the US these flights serve a real need that would be better met by trains, but that is a long term project.
Air travel, despite obvious harms, is heavily subsidized and regulated in many ways. The budget airline "Spirit" has been in the news and may get a bailout. No one is talking about reducing private jets.
2/
@futurebird fwiw, I’ve heard people talking about banning private jets. It makes a lot of sense
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Plenty of people are talking about reducing private jets, it’s just not getting enough attention.
There’s an effort to reduce tax breaks for private jets in the US and other countries are considering curbs on private jets to protect the environment
Private jets emitted more climate pollution than all flights departing Heathrow Airport in 2023 - International Council on Clean Transportation
A groundbreaking new study from the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) estimates that private jets produced up to 19.5 million tonnes of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in 2023, a 25% increase over the past decade and accounting for nearly 4% of all civil aviation emissions at their post-COVID peak.
International Council on Clean Transportation (theicct.org)
"tax breaks for private jet"
Lord in heaven what on earth are we DOING?
(I know what we are doing)
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Would you support a high tax or other restrictions on private jets?
4/
@futurebird (I think in practice it depends on how it's worded. There are ways to target private jets that are very easily evaded by private jet users and thus will have no effect. These are just a means of distracting people.)
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Let's talk about airplanes and flying with some polls. Air travel can open whole new possibilities and allow people to learn about the world. It can connect far flung families. It's also terrible for the environment and expensive.
The super wealthy use private jets increasing the impact of their travel. In politics the specter of annoying environmentalists telling you that you can't travel, or taxing you if you do is used to fear-monger and protect the people in the private jets.
1/
I fly for a government project I help out with (incoming vagueness, obviously). We have to justify and offset the environmental cost, as part of civil servant type stuff. We fly public, and business class. I feel guilty for that.
All of us at work would be fine with regs/taxes increasing on both private and public air travel. And have lobbied for better intercity rail.
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"tax breaks for private jet"
Lord in heaven what on earth are we DOING?
(I know what we are doing)
The hardship and suffering of the private jet owner
I am crying just thinking about them. Poor dears!
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First question. How often do you fly?
If you have not been in a plane for more than five years pick the first option. Also, this is about what you do now, not how much you may have flown in another period of your life. 3/
@futurebird Having family on the other side of Europe I cannot exclude air travel in the future. (This is not an invitation to explain alternatives to me)
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Would you support a high tax or other restrictions on private jets?
4/
@futurebird Depends on the definition of "private jet." The "general aviation" sector is pretty harmless in comparison to the Rich Fuckers with gold-plated interiors. (they also provide some value for pilot training and services like larger scale aerial photography/surveys)
The biggest issue is getting it precise enough to actually catch all the private jets while excluding other "general aviation" things, because you know the rich fuckers would have their underlings looking for loopholes the moment it was even proposed.
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The hardship and suffering of the private jet owner
I am crying just thinking about them. Poor dears!
It’s one reason I stopped feeling guilty about flying internationally or across country to visit family.
Like I know it’s bad for the environment, and I do what I can eg not driving as much as possible, living a low consumption lifestyle, but I just can’t justify not seeing family when we have so little time with them, when richy rich is jetting around for no reason.
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Would you support a high tax or other restrictions on private jets?
4/
@futurebird tax ALL the carbon!
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@futurebird (I think in practice it depends on how it's worded. There are ways to target private jets that are very easily evaded by private jet users and thus will have no effect. These are just a means of distracting people.)
OK but we understand what we want to do. It should be much more expensive and rare for people to ride in private jets.
Just ride with everyone else for crying out loud instead of farting carbon all over the entire sky.
Yes, the people who like this kind of travel will wriggle and act persecuted and cry but I think "private jets" just sound deeply gross to most people at this moment.
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OK but we understand what we want to do. It should be much more expensive and rare for people to ride in private jets.
Just ride with everyone else for crying out loud instead of farting carbon all over the entire sky.
Yes, the people who like this kind of travel will wriggle and act persecuted and cry but I think "private jets" just sound deeply gross to most people at this moment.
@futurebird Sure. But the devil is in the details.
There was something like a "private yacht tax" in France, but the way it worked, hardly anybody had to pay it.
The danger is to announce a "private jet tax" and claim it as a victory for environment, though hardly anybody pays it because it can be worked around.
So it has to be well-designed.
E.g.: As far as I understand, most "private jets" do not belong to a private individual, they belong to companies and can be chartered for flights. If one taxes air travel that happens without a ticket being delivered, they will simply ticket the passengers.
It probably has to be something about "very few passengers compared to airplane size". And it has to allow cargo planes, but not as an excuse.
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With oil prices under pressure again some airlines are cutting shorter flights. In the US these flights serve a real need that would be better met by trains, but that is a long term project.
Air travel, despite obvious harms, is heavily subsidized and regulated in many ways. The budget airline "Spirit" has been in the news and may get a bailout. No one is talking about reducing private jets.
2/
@futurebird of course tax the shit out of private aviation. But if one can, flying direct can cut emissions a lot and spares one from all the bullshit airlines made up around boarding to fleece customers.
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"tax breaks for private jet"
Lord in heaven what on earth are we DOING?
(I know what we are doing)
@futurebird
wait what they need to show the private jet owners that actually pay taxes first
@MCDuncanLab -
Let's talk about airplanes and flying with some polls. Air travel can open whole new possibilities and allow people to learn about the world. It can connect far flung families. It's also terrible for the environment and expensive.
The super wealthy use private jets increasing the impact of their travel. In politics the specter of annoying environmentalists telling you that you can't travel, or taxing you if you do is used to fear-monger and protect the people in the private jets.
1/
Yeah the dissonance of guilting ordinary people while the private jet thing exists is huge.
It’s like guilting people who cram themselves into a bus for an intercity trip instead of paying attention to the rest of the highway crowded with private luxury vehicles.
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First question. How often do you fly?
If you have not been in a plane for more than five years pick the first option. Also, this is about what you do now, not how much you may have flown in another period of your life. 3/
@futurebird It’s not the flying that bothers me. I love flying. The problem is the airport security that ensures I am reminded that I am not supposed to exist.
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Would you support a high tax or other restrictions on private jets?
4/
@futurebird Hell, I'd ban first class.
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First question. How often do you fly?
If you have not been in a plane for more than five years pick the first option. Also, this is about what you do now, not how much you may have flown in another period of your life. 3/
@futurebird
I take trains when possible.
I flew one-way west 3400km last summer, plan to fly round trip 3400km east in the summer of 2027. -
Would you support a high tax or other restrictions on private jets?
4/
Taxes would be irrelevant, because we're talking about a level of fuck you money that literally they'd just do some contortion or bribe a few hundred politicians and *boom* they're polluting and shutting down train projects all over again.
Restrictions, similarly, would just be either violated (who in our government will enforce them? Democrats?) or loopholed on purpose by owned and operated politicians...
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With oil prices under pressure again some airlines are cutting shorter flights. In the US these flights serve a real need that would be better met by trains, but that is a long term project.
Air travel, despite obvious harms, is heavily subsidized and regulated in many ways. The budget airline "Spirit" has been in the news and may get a bailout. No one is talking about reducing private jets.
2/
@futurebird So, fun fact, due in part to the Jones Act there is no way to enter or leave Puerto Rico except by air.
Spirit has already canceled all flights to/from Puerto Rico. What happens when everybody else does, too?
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@futurebird Depends on the definition of "private jet." The "general aviation" sector is pretty harmless in comparison to the Rich Fuckers with gold-plated interiors. (they also provide some value for pilot training and services like larger scale aerial photography/surveys)
The biggest issue is getting it precise enough to actually catch all the private jets while excluding other "general aviation" things, because you know the rich fuckers would have their underlings looking for loopholes the moment it was even proposed.
Every private jet will have 1 coach seat in the back to qualify as a commercial passenger jet.
'But first class just happens to be really big.'
