Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child.
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Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child. Winer (among many achievements) came up with RSS and also is credited with inventing podcasting.
@kevinteljeur I know Dave. This is incredibly disappointing.
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@cstross @kevinteljeur It's depressing to see this all over and from presumably moderately intelligent people. We're in trouble already, but we'll be in REAL trouble once a majority decides that this "AI" shit is something they believe in.
@phf @cstross @kevinteljeur one look at IT - particularly security, threat researchers, etc. - and you realize we are already completely and totally fucked. And the inevitable catastrophic collapse of the chatbot vendors will do a lot more damage than just an economic collapse that makes the Great Depression look mild.
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Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child. Winer (among many achievements) came up with RSS and also is credited with inventing podcasting.
@kevinteljeur I was thinking "how sad" until the last word, and then it was like "oh".
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@kevinteljeur See also: Richard Dawkins (and many others).
It's the ELIZA delusion—if something superficially resembles a face we see a person behind it, and if something emits output superficially resembling that of a mind our theory of mind infers a mind behind it.
Joseph Weizenbaum warned us about this in the 1970s but nobody was paying attention.
@cstross @kevinteljeur I am a scientist second and an educator first. All my life I have had to watch the systematic devaluation and destruction of the humanities.
This is why we need philosophy.
(History had been pretty well demonstrated)
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Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child. Winer (among many achievements) came up with RSS and also is credited with inventing podcasting.
@kevinteljeur Yes, it quite sad to see and read. I actually pointed that out to him, but never got a response. It is a sensitive topic, and I did my best to stay polite and not condescending.
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@cstross @kevinteljeur It's depressing to see this all over and from presumably moderately intelligent people. We're in trouble already, but we'll be in REAL trouble once a majority decides that this "AI" shit is something they believe in.
@phf @cstross @kevinteljeur all my C-suite bosses (context: big Spanish company) have what we could call a turboFOMO syndrome, so they are pushing onwards to adopt genAI even in very marginal use cases.
I’m three years, one month and 25 days from retirement, and I can’t wait for it.
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@phf @cstross @kevinteljeur one look at IT - particularly security, threat researchers, etc. - and you realize we are already completely and totally fucked. And the inevitable catastrophic collapse of the chatbot vendors will do a lot more damage than just an economic collapse that makes the Great Depression look mild.
@rootwyrm @phf @cstross @kevinteljeur
Security especially.
Secure software must succeed 100% of the time.
Criminal software only has to succeed <1% of the time.
AI, being about 50% right, slants the the field deeply in favor of criminal software.
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Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child. Winer (among many achievements) came up with RSS and also is credited with inventing podcasting.
@kevinteljeur@mastodon.online
Being new is part - I doubt anyone now would be fooled by a physical mechanical Turk, yet back before the tells were known, such a thing existed and was successful to the point we are all aware it hundreds of years later. And part of it is the software leveraging psychological techniques gleaned from corporate social media, intentional and insidious.
I've been closely following both the Claude leak and Kent from Bcachefs's Proof of Concept who "discovered" its sexuality while interacting with someone on a public irc channel, the latter I go into in some detail in the quoted post for anyone interested as the interaction lays bare the logic tree behind "learning" and "interaction"
RE: https://plasmatrap.com/notes/alt4uf69g9 -
Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child. Winer (among many achievements) came up with RSS and also is credited with inventing podcasting.
@kevinteljeur I'm suddenly very glad that he blocked me for asking what he meant with his claim that in the Facebook Friendfeed purchase, what effectively happened was that Facebook became Friendfeed.
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@kevinteljeur See also: Richard Dawkins (and many others).
It's the ELIZA delusion—if something superficially resembles a face we see a person behind it, and if something emits output superficially resembling that of a mind our theory of mind infers a mind behind it.
Joseph Weizenbaum warned us about this in the 1970s but nobody was paying attention.
I am totally unsurprised about Winer. I never met Dawkins, but I have corresponded and met with Dave several times.
Note: I met my second wife because of a proto-blog Dave was writing in the mid 1990s.
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@kevinteljeur See also: Richard Dawkins (and many others).
It's the ELIZA delusion—if something superficially resembles a face we see a person behind it, and if something emits output superficially resembling that of a mind our theory of mind infers a mind behind it.
Joseph Weizenbaum warned us about this in the 1970s but nobody was paying attention.
Marketers have been preying on the human tendency to see patterns in everything since the dawn of history (or at least the dawn of marketing), but I think that with this one they've reached a new level of genuine evil.
This is the first instance of one of these scams that I can recall which actually and actively damages the mark's cognitive ability. It's like measles, if you catch it it'll wipe out your immune system and make you more susceptible to other diseases.
[ETA: Okay, possibly organized religion.]
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Marketers have been preying on the human tendency to see patterns in everything since the dawn of history (or at least the dawn of marketing), but I think that with this one they've reached a new level of genuine evil.
This is the first instance of one of these scams that I can recall which actually and actively damages the mark's cognitive ability. It's like measles, if you catch it it'll wipe out your immune system and make you more susceptible to other diseases.
[ETA: Okay, possibly organized religion.]
@theogrin @cstross @kevinteljeur Finally, We Have Invented Memetic COVID From The Classic Scifi Novel "Don't Invent Memetic COVID" -
@cstross @kevinteljeur It's depressing to see this all over and from presumably moderately intelligent people. We're in trouble already, but we'll be in REAL trouble once a majority decides that this "AI" shit is something they believe in.
@phf @cstross @kevinteljeur all it takes is for someone in the TESCREAL bunch pulling an L. Ron Hubbard move and we're all fucked.
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@phf @cstross @kevinteljeur all it takes is for someone in the TESCREAL bunch pulling an L. Ron Hubbard move and we're all fucked.
@ehproque @phf @kevinteljeur If L Ron Hubbard's playbook is the worst you can imagine then I envy you. (Hint: TESCREAL is *already* a proto-religion, the sort of syncretistic soup that pre-Nicean Christianity emerged from, adjacent to Rabbinical Judaism and early Islam, circa 100-500CE. It's done an embrace-and-extend on all the transhumanist memes in the same way that early Xtianity glommed onto all sorts of weird-ass shit from the Levant.)
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@ehproque @phf @kevinteljeur If L Ron Hubbard's playbook is the worst you can imagine then I envy you. (Hint: TESCREAL is *already* a proto-religion, the sort of syncretistic soup that pre-Nicean Christianity emerged from, adjacent to Rabbinical Judaism and early Islam, circa 100-500CE. It's done an embrace-and-extend on all the transhumanist memes in the same way that early Xtianity glommed onto all sorts of weird-ass shit from the Levant.)
@cstross @phf @kevinteljeur it's all it takes, but of course it can be enhanced!
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@theogrin @cstross @kevinteljeur Finally, We Have Invented Memetic COVID From The Classic Scifi Novel "Don't Invent Memetic COVID"
@keithzg @theogrin @kevinteljeur @cstross Strong parallels to Snow Crash
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@keithzg @theogrin @kevinteljeur @cstross Strong parallels to Snow Crash
@Affekt @keithzg @theogrin @kevinteljeur No, Snow Crash (alas) is SF that took Julian Jaynes' "On the origins of consciousness and the breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" seriously and asked what-if (poiler: Jaynes' book was crank pseudoscience).
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@Affekt @keithzg @theogrin @kevinteljeur No, Snow Crash (alas) is SF that took Julian Jaynes' "On the origins of consciousness and the breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" seriously and asked what-if (poiler: Jaynes' book was crank pseudoscience).
@cstross @keithzg @theogrin @kevinteljeur fair enough, I was ripping out one small part of one plot point.
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@kevinteljeur See also: Richard Dawkins (and many others).
It's the ELIZA delusion—if something superficially resembles a face we see a person behind it, and if something emits output superficially resembling that of a mind our theory of mind infers a mind behind it.
Joseph Weizenbaum warned us about this in the 1970s but nobody was paying attention.
@cstross @kevinteljeur It's so much worse than ELIZA. LLMs are a sociotechnical loop trained on user behavior. Whatever pleases the user is fed back into the system to produce more of it. In one of my blogs I called chatbots as a service an "echo cathedral."
Metaphor might be redundant now that I think about it... but you get the point.
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Dave Winer is writing about the Claude LLM as if it is a real person that he's sitting down with and teaching things to, like a child. Winer (among many achievements) came up with RSS and also is credited with inventing podcasting.
@kevinteljeur Shrugs… not surprising.
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