Your infrequent reminder that I spent twenty minutes dead a few years ago, and without constant CPR and a correctly-used defibrillator when paramedics arrived I would still be dead.
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@noodlemaz That sickens me to my core.
@digitalraven Me too. @noodlemaz
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On my first aid course, we were told that we were not doctors, we wouldn't be doctors if we passed this course, and only doctors could certify death.
We would not be qualified to certify death even in cases of incineration, decapitation, or partial decomposition.
@davidtheeviloverlord @digitalraven Years ago there was one of those “fly-on-the-wall” TV programs following the workers on a UK railway. They had a case of a “person on the tracks”, i.e., suicide, with a black comic moment where the station manager was calling for a doctor to certify death and one of the workers is saying “but his head's come off”.
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
Exactly what my instructor always told us !!!
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Yeah, but it is best to check carefully that they don't have a pulse before doing CPR.
(Someone recently told me how her brother had been seriously injured after he had only fainted.)
@regordane @digitalraven THIS is what frightens me. When I'm stressed my ability to check for a pulse is reduced. The defib at least can be sure... but it takes time to go get it.
@digitalraven I'm so very glad you blew through the odds and survived. And that you were surrounded by people capable. -
@regordane @digitalraven With respect, that’s the right idea but not the current advice. Pulse checks can be unreliable. Instead, you should check for breathing. Someone who has fainted will still be breathing and should be put into the recovery / airway protection position. If they are unconscious and not breathing, start CPR and do not stop.
@m0rpk @regordane @digitalraven
AH! Now, that I CAN reliably do. I am glad for this advice. Thank you.
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@davidtheeviloverlord @digitalraven Years ago there was one of those “fly-on-the-wall” TV programs following the workers on a UK railway. They had a case of a “person on the tracks”, i.e., suicide, with a black comic moment where the station manager was calling for a doctor to certify death and one of the workers is saying “but his head's come off”.
@edavies @davidtheeviloverlord @digitalraven I remember something similar, rules said they couldn't move the train until person was pronounced dead in case they aggravated the injury.
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@digitalraven Me too. @noodlemaz
@RachelC_Y @digitalraven added the link in case anyone with an account feels like going and drowning them out some more.
Or, for some reason, does not believe me that these people are serious. -
The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
@digitalraven Can testify. I owe my life to two people who didn't hesitate.
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@digitalraven I would absolutely rather the effort and a couple of broken ribs than someone not bother and y'know...be dead.
@Lewie_Kong @digitalraven Context is important, though. A Stage 4 cancer patient who requires heavy sedation to defeat pain may have a valid reason to stipulate DNR
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@Lewie_Kong @digitalraven Context is important, though. A Stage 4 cancer patient who requires heavy sedation to defeat pain may have a valid reason to stipulate DNR
@Zerofactorial @digitalraven which is why I said "I" and not "a stage 4 cancer patient".
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On my first aid course, we were told that we were not doctors, we wouldn't be doctors if we passed this course, and only doctors could certify death.
We would not be qualified to certify death even in cases of incineration, decapitation, or partial decomposition.
@davidtheeviloverlord @digitalraven
Not knowing the courses you've been on, but the criterion I've been given most often is "injuries obviously incompatible with life". Which basically means that you have to triage. -
@regordane @digitalraven Somebody knew enough to do CPR but not enough to check for a pulse? Yikes
@rpluim @regordane @digitalraven It's credible. Particularly if you take into account that the first-aider themselves is almost certainly panicking themselves.
Having killed someone by doing CPR incorrectly, and had enough "you die if you get this wrong" moments, I'm still find an unexpected first aid incident very stressful, while thinking "Oh no, not again!" -
@rpluim @regordane @digitalraven
A friend of mine, who was a qualified nurse, was astonished when I told her something I'd learned on my first aid/CPR course.
You know how brain death starts about four minutes after breathing stops?
That four minutes doesn't start until you stop CPR.
As long as you're doing CPR, you're doing their breathing for them.
So don't stop after four minutes.
They might not be dead yet.
@davidtheeviloverlord @rpluim @regordane @digitalraven
*You* don't stop until you collapse.
IF professionals arrive, they won't stop until told to by a resus doctor. -
@regordane @digitalraven THIS is what frightens me. When I'm stressed my ability to check for a pulse is reduced. The defib at least can be sure... but it takes time to go get it.
@digitalraven I'm so very glad you blew through the odds and survived. And that you were surrounded by people capable.@Antiqueight @regordane @digitalraven
Quick check : name the 3 nearest defibrillators to your current location. -
@Antiqueight @regordane @digitalraven
Quick check : name the 3 nearest defibrillators to your current location.@WellsiteGeo @regordane @digitalraven
To my house I have not just found out where they are but don't a distance list to them for the local community website so you can tell how far they are from the houses we live in (there are really 2 within "easy" reach)
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The dumbest take I've ever heard is "but what if I harm them further while doing CPR?"
A person who needs CPR is functionally dead. If they come back to life, a couple of broken ribs is a small price to pay.
@digitalraven
If TV has taught me anything, if you don't break a rib or two, you're not doing it right. -
@Zerofactorial @digitalraven which is why I said "I" and not "a stage 4 cancer patient".
@Lewie_Kong imagine "well actually"-ing someone about a personal preference 🥲 @Zerofactorial @digitalraven
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Your infrequent reminder that I spent twenty minutes dead a few years ago, and without constant CPR and a correctly-used defibrillator when paramedics arrived I would still be dead.
LEARN CPR. LEARN TO USE A DEFIBRILLATOR.
Thank you for this. When I was taking first aid they told us to prepare ourselves for the fact that most of the people we might revive, would probably be dead in two days, which is maybe the most demoralizing thing you can tell someone who's working hard to learn CPR. Hearing about someone who survived helps keep that out of my head.
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@digitalraven I was in a gigantic and disgusting thread on IG a while back - a Met police whistleblower posted about the need for better CPR training so men don't avoid trying to save women because... Boobs.
Honestly the amount of 'you can just fking die I'm not touching you, you'll accuse me and ruin my life' comments was utterly overwhelming and sickening.
Men seriously out there admitting they'd rather let women die than stop sexualising us.
@noodlemaz@mstdn.games @digitalraven@retro.pizza and then blaming us for it like holy shit
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@regordane @digitalraven Somebody knew enough to do CPR but not enough to check for a pulse? Yikes
@rpluim @regordane @digitalraven Checking for a pulse is surprisingly error-prone, if you ever did it once and that's been years ago, i.e. in you last first aid course.
There is a saying that most people would find a pulse on a table leg in that situation. Their own, adrenaline driven pulse, that is.
This is why nowadays you're trained to check for breathing: That's much easier to do.
If the heart stops, breathing will stop within seconds. And if breathing stops before the heart, the heart will follow within minutes, if nothing is done.
