Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted.
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@quixoticgeek Men are fragile, yes, but that's not what is going on in chess afaik. Tournaments are either open (i.e. mixed) or women only. The usual justification given for this is to encourage more women to participate by creating a more welcoming space for them.
edit to add: e.g. Zhu Jiner came in 7th at the TePe Sigeman tournament earlier this month and Bibisara Assaubayeva was 5th in the Tata steel challengers tournament this year.
@redjives @quixoticgeek
Apparently darts are like chess in that regard, it's either open or women's.
What i find fascinating is that open darts are dominated by men – at the moment the highest woman in the ranking is 77th.
A sport that, jokes about the ability to hold your beer aside, is about the hand eye coordination. Wouldn't have guessed. -
@redjives @quixoticgeek
Apparently darts are like chess in that regard, it's either open or women's.
What i find fascinating is that open darts are dominated by men – at the moment the highest woman in the ranking is 77th.
A sport that, jokes about the ability to hold your beer aside, is about the hand eye coordination. Wouldn't have guessed.@klegdixal @redjives @quixoticgeek This is also about structural marginalization/patriarchy: There might not be a visible barrier for people marginalized because of their gender identity, but privilege hear can mean that certain people are encouraged more an earlier than others.
I once heard a teacher say that gender differences as to in which subjects pupils were good in, where nurture, not nature and increases with age.
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@klegdixal @redjives @quixoticgeek This is also about structural marginalization/patriarchy: There might not be a visible barrier for people marginalized because of their gender identity, but privilege hear can mean that certain people are encouraged more an earlier than others.
I once heard a teacher say that gender differences as to in which subjects pupils were good in, where nurture, not nature and increases with age.
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@klegdixal @redjives @quixoticgeek
Also, lots of so-called "women sports" are not funded as well as their "male" counterparts.As darts is an individual sport, players have to find their own sponsors. I rather don't wanna know how many non-male darts players were told "That's not a sport for you. You won't get successful. I won't bet my money on you." And sponsoring determines if you have to work an additional job or not and how much time you have for training.
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Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
@quixoticgeek
IIRC, that's the story since the 19/20th, as women entered professional sports (alas I don't have a good source on hand).Edit: @StarkRG has already started this topic and added additional “cases” of fragility.
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@noodlemaz @StarkRG @quixoticgeek Hah, snap, I just replied about the same thing. Women's football was specifically excluded and suppressed by the FA for fifty years, for becoming too popular.
@beecycling @noodlemaz @StarkRG @quixoticgeek Wasn't it the same with us baseball during ww2, where they became so popular some few worried it might outcompete the males when they returned?
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It looks like that the FIDE World Chess Championship is open to individuals without mentionning genre restriction.
On the other hand, FIDE Women Chess Championship is reserved to women, de facto excluding men.
So what is your source to claim that men refuse to be challenged by women ?
@tanavit One example:
https://www.issf-sports.org/news/4345Next to that, the history of sports is rife with the exclusion and humiliation of women sporters based on patriarchal White supremacist ideas:
https://thenib.com/gender-divisions-in-sports-trans-athletes/ -
@beecycling @noodlemaz @StarkRG @quixoticgeek Wasn't it the same with us baseball during ww2, where they became so popular some few worried it might outcompete the males when they returned?
@Amorpheus @beecycling @noodlemaz @quixoticgeek
Maybe? Probably. What I know about that time in baseball is mixed up with the fiction of A League of Their Own.
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@klegdixal @redjives @quixoticgeek
Also, lots of so-called "women sports" are not funded as well as their "male" counterparts.As darts is an individual sport, players have to find their own sponsors. I rather don't wanna know how many non-male darts players were told "That's not a sport for you. You won't get successful. I won't bet my money on you." And sponsoring determines if you have to work an additional job or not and how much time you have for training.
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@klegdixal @redjives @quixoticgeek And in ski flying(!), I kid you not, women were entirely banned and subjected to ski jumping at most, because of the long-held falsehood that the uterus would fall out if a woman attempted to do ski flying.
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Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
This was the original reason in the early 1900's, that the Olympics was split into men's and women's events.
Men did NOT like losing to women.
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Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
@quixoticgeek it's literally the astronaut at gunpoint meme.
"Wait, it's all misogyny?"
"It always was."
This should tell anyone all they need to know about the supposed feminism of TERFs, in case their willingness to ally with other right wing reactionaries hadn't already given the game away.
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It looks like that the FIDE World Chess Championship is open to individuals without mentionning genre restriction.
On the other hand, FIDE Women Chess Championship is reserved to women, de facto excluding men.
So what is your source to claim that men refuse to be challenged by women ?
In the typical national level chess tournament the best woman will go for the money that first place gives in the women's only league, while 2nd and 3rd play in the open tournament because they won't win either way and they get better games against men. Below that there are no women who are good enough to qualify for the open and so they have to play in the women's only one. Of course every tournament is different and so things will vary a little, but something like the above is typical.
The few women who choose to study chess prove that women are perfectly capable of playing at high levels. However most choose not to, which is just fine except when someone tries to abuse the fact that women rarely choose play chess to try to make some sexism point.
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Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
@quixoticgeek
Fencing is also gender-segregated. And there is controversy over recent trans-exclusive policy changes by U.S. Fencing. But the only real rationale would be differences in height and reach, and that would argue for height classes, not gender classes.Many tournaments include open competition, however. As an amateur fencer, I've been beaten by women plenty of times, without disgrace--including, repeatedly, by an 11-year old girl who was about 18 inches shorter (but very fast).
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Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
@quixoticgeek I’ve been beaten by kids less than a quarter my age, and by people nearly three times it. I’ve been beaten by opponents of all genders, not that it mattered in the slightest.
When I lose, I don’t blame my opponent; I am the sole orchestrator of my defeats.
I’ve never seen a men-only tournament. I’ve seen many women-only. Also plenty of rating brackets, to give players a chance to not get eliminated instantly.
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@klegdixal @redjives @quixoticgeek This is also about structural marginalization/patriarchy: There might not be a visible barrier for people marginalized because of their gender identity, but privilege hear can mean that certain people are encouraged more an earlier than others.
I once heard a teacher say that gender differences as to in which subjects pupils were good in, where nurture, not nature and increases with age.
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@shaedrich @redjives @quixoticgeek
Meantime in darts:
"The three players at the top of Women's Series Order of Merit (excluding the Women's World Matchplay Champion) qualify to the World Championship, guaranteeing that at least four places in the tournament are occupied by women. Additionally, the top 8 players without Tour Cards qualify to the preliminary stages of the next season's World Masters." -
@StarkRG @quixoticgeek Olympic pistol-shooting, IIRC.
It was mixed until all those poor men got spanked by some chick who didn't even have the decency to be white.Correction: it was skeet, in 1992. Thanks to @folfdk
Reference to the 1992 Olympics, which is what I'm assuming is the event @KatS is thinking about:
Zhang Shan won the open Skeet competition. It was the last time the Olympics had an open Skeet competition, and the 1996 Olympics only had a mens Skeet competition, not one for women.
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@quixoticgeek I’ve been beaten by kids less than a quarter my age, and by people nearly three times it. I’ve been beaten by opponents of all genders, not that it mattered in the slightest.
When I lose, I don’t blame my opponent; I am the sole orchestrator of my defeats.
I’ve never seen a men-only tournament. I’ve seen many women-only. Also plenty of rating brackets, to give players a chance to not get eliminated instantly.
@quixoticgeek The women-only tournaments are well justified. It’s quite common for players to go watch other boards during the tournament. It can help give you ideas, and gives you a break from your own game.
The problem is when a board is swarmed because one of the players is attractive in some way, instead of because of the game on the board.
Having female arbiters, female players, and female staff creates a safe environment.
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Reference to the 1992 Olympics, which is what I'm assuming is the event @KatS is thinking about:
Zhang Shan won the open Skeet competition. It was the last time the Olympics had an open Skeet competition, and the 1996 Olympics only had a mens Skeet competition, not one for women.
@folfdk @StarkRG @quixoticgeek That is indeed the event I was thinking of, thankyou.
And I stand corrected: it was skeet, not pistol-shooting. -
@redjives @quixoticgeek And , pray tell, why is there a need to create a more welcoming space for women?
@RandamuMaki
because men didn't raise their sons right @redjives @quixoticgeek -
Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
@quixoticgeek men tend to explain it as "we don't want to hurt women's fragile egos by beating them all the time in chess because it would discourage them, they don't have analytical minds like we do". It's miserable.
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Yesterday I replied to a toot someone posted. Their toot was boggling at how trans women were excluded from the challenging physical sport that is darts. My reply pointed out that chess is also gender segregated, at least at lower levels.
Lots of people replied to me asking why. And the reply is simple.
Men don't like being beaten by a girl. Chess is gender segregated to protect fragile men.
@quixoticgeek interesting edit: chess is not gender segregated the way you describe. There's just more men playing chess so there's a lot fewer women in the top rankings.
