I have been watching this story simmer for several days.
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The impulse to use an LLM, and other shortcuts to make such decisions is indicative of a lack of serious interest in the details of the situation.
A level of study and interest that ought to be present for decisions that kill so many people.
I think that's why it matters.
@futurebird @gotofritz also if a decision to make a strike, and a decision about coordinates of that strike, is made solely on the basis of the information provided by intern or by some python script cobbled together without very stringent quality control, then heads of everybody involved in making a decision to rely on such intern or python script for such purposes should roll. I don't see why it should be different with LLM.
(I'm not saying that wars are good or that conducting strikes on the basis of more reliable information is good. But this specifically is such an obvious violation of all possible norms of conducting wars, it's only possible if those conducting the war don't give even a slightest shit about civilians.)
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Right wing war hawk commentators are saying that hitting a civilian target, a school filled with little girls is "good strategy, actually" we, the soft-handed peace-nicks are simply not smart enough to understand the strategic power of this action.
But, if the Department of war won't say it remains unclear if this atrocity is based on incompetence or dim-witted malice.
update: We can infer that they "missed"
https://shakedown.social/@AAronL1968/116193541496761440@futurebird "Better to boast of atrocities than to apologize for errors" is so familiar a pattern of authoritarian thinking I honestly can't tell yet whether this was an intentional hit based on bad intelligence, an intentional hit driven by indifference to the quality of inputs, or a cruel accident of war that placed a bomb where it wasn't intended to be. The idiotic noises coming allegedly from the SecDef add no clarity.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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My disgust for war, for the military, is not the result of being sheltered.
I hate your wars because I know exactly what they are and how when violence occurs it reverberates for generations.
Someone has lost a daughter and with her many of their reasons for living. What grim task will they devote themselves to?
What would you do, Pete, if they killed your family? Do you think you are the only person who loves their children?
I think you must.
@futurebird I'd be very surprised if he felt love for his children. Ownership, yes. Love, no.
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@gotofritz @futurebird I don’t believe these are arbitrary biased statements, they are characteristics uniquely of an anthropomorphized chat interface to a language model. It is not the same.
Thank you for arguing seriously, though I still respectfully disagree, I believe your own bias toward whitewashing all technology as the same in the spectrum of harm hides critical specificity which provides a much less truthful account of its impact.
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
@futurebird The intelligence is artificial. All of it.
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
@futurebird RE bombing of Iranian girls school: NPR has it right- a mistake using old data in the Bombing Encyclopedia used by military. Easy process to add targets to BE but I doubt that there is any process to a) review the target for change in status (part of naval base -> walled off school and b) removing the "targets" from the BE.
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
@futurebird Shallow mindstates now seem to dominate. Not just in politics but in public. Being spoilt online, with escape from responsibilities to others on matters of deed or word can cultivate that shallowness - me, now, fast. And I do not care how you got it - just give. Or is this an overplay?
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My disgust for war, for the military, is not the result of being sheltered.
I hate your wars because I know exactly what they are and how when violence occurs it reverberates for generations.
Someone has lost a daughter and with her many of their reasons for living. What grim task will they devote themselves to?
What would you do, Pete, if they killed your family? Do you think you are the only person who loves their children?
I think you must.
@futurebird At some point a War Crimes tribunal will need to rule that the person pressing return on an AI killing decisions is the person responsible for a War Crime. We need an AI weapons treaty now
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Maybe if more people had to look at the city maps, if they had to read the local papers, and study the site there would have been more objections. Maybe you see a "street view" photo of the cross guard escorting the girls to class. Maybe you notice a paper sign in the window of a shop saying a new toy is in stock.
The target isn't just coordinates, it's a place where people live. People who don't care about international politics any more than the kids playing on your own block.
@futurebird Iran helped us along on this one, with the blackout.
As much as I, a thinking person, have zero reason to believe that Israel is conducting themselves differently than they have in Gaza and the West Bank, Iran seems to have kinda been twirling their dervishy moustachios for the Western punters.
If I was a general in Iran, with the ear of the mullahs, I would be pointing out that Tehran is in a state of catastrophic drought in the first place, which makes it less and less useful as a city, but if they are invaded, it will enable a cooperative evacuation of the city with minimal resistance from the populace, solving the internal humanitarian crisis that has been looming, while also providing an incredible defensive battlefield for an invading force,
because they would not be so much defending their country's prized jewel, as just slaughtering Americans. No wonder that Iran guy on CNN sounded so cool about it all. They are definitely ready and waiting, anyways...
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My disgust for war, for the military, is not the result of being sheltered.
I hate your wars because I know exactly what they are and how when violence occurs it reverberates for generations.
Someone has lost a daughter and with her many of their reasons for living. What grim task will they devote themselves to?
What would you do, Pete, if they killed your family? Do you think you are the only person who loves their children?
I think you must.
War is as "natural" a state for mankind as two nests of Formica rufa fighting for territory.
Peace is highly unnatural among our species. Peace is achieved through the hard-won efforts of diplomats.
But wars have better music
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
@futurebird They have lazily been depending on LLM's for everything, for the past year. They're even using them to write EO's and do official government work that gets posted publicly without any human validation.
As for the Dept. of War, the honesty of that nomenclature is actually pretty refreshing if you ask me. It was only ever called the Dept. of Defense to hide behind a euphemism.
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@futurebird
IIRC, the CIA did something similar during the vietnam war.They were tracking movements of groups of people (because people who don't stay in place and especially go to places that were forcefully emptied are obviously viet cong).
Turns out, it was often elderly and children returning to where they formerly lived, for cultural reasons CIA analysts didn't care to learn about, like to honor their ancestors.
So the US send soldiers to execute old people and small children, because they were obviously viet cong.
Exhibit A in "ho chi minh was the good guy"
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@futurebird By using the word 'targeting' you make it sound as if the harm to that school was deliberate. Any proof of that? Or is this just more uncritical Israel-bashing?
@watcher@vivaldi.net @futurebird
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@futurebird At some point a War Crimes tribunal will need to rule that the person pressing return on an AI killing decisions is the person responsible for a War Crime. We need an AI weapons treaty now
I have this theory called Sanitizing From Altitude, SFA.
I was an artillery forward observer. I delivered the mail, so to speak. We didn't have drones, sometimes we had FACs to direct airstrikes.
Out in front of the effing infantry.
See, if a nasty old terrorist sets off a bomb in a coffee shop, that's just awful.
But let me put a 155 round downrange, that's sposta be Bronze Star Heroic, eh?
War IS a crime.
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@JamesWidman @futurebird Also "just because side A are bad guys, which we can all agree on, that doesn't make side B good guys." That falsity is so fundamental to media presentations of any sort of conflict or disagreement that I don't think it's salvageable.
@RogerBW @JamesWidman @futurebird
it is no better than an recent incident in my country where a rapist and double murderer killed a child murderer - but at least both of them were already locked up in His Majesty's Prison and not allowed to affect the entire World..
Along with the rest of Northern Europe we are also constantly unearthing UXO at the coast from World War 2 and having to evacuate whole towns, and amongst our multicultural communities are many traumatised by wars from 1990s to present day who end up getting drawn into criminality and violence as they have grown up in an environment where "might makes right"...
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
@futurebird I’m sad.
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My disgust for war, for the military, is not the result of being sheltered.
I hate your wars because I know exactly what they are and how when violence occurs it reverberates for generations.
Someone has lost a daughter and with her many of their reasons for living. What grim task will they devote themselves to?
What would you do, Pete, if they killed your family? Do you think you are the only person who loves their children?
I think you must.
I can't understand how someone could support war without being pretty damn'd sheltered.
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
@futurebird technically, it remains the Department of Defense until an act of Congress renames it. The entire pathetic regime is fraudulent.
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RE: https://infosec.exchange/@hacks4pancakes/116192434654015384
I have been watching this story simmer for several days. I've been wary of it. It fits too neatly into the criticisms and warnings many of us have been raising. But it's starting to look like, yes, they are using an LLM to make critical decisions.
At the same time I have heard parts of speeches from the US Secretary of War.* I have been dismayed by his shallow thinking. It doesn't help that his speeches also sound like they are also composed by an LLM.
*formerly Defense
You and I are going through much the same line of thinking.
Whiskey, Pete openly declared without explicit words that billionaires are aggressively consolidating, total mass surveillance of the US population and in integrating that information into a military automated keychain.
That is the semantic content of the pronunciation and punishment of Anthropic, who has made nothing but a performative ethic-washing statement.
They are already doing what they say they refuse to do.
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His speeches sound LLM generated because they are filled with so many cliches and empty sentences. And because they sound nothing like they way he speaks extemporaneousnessly. Of course this could just be a bad speech writer. Or it could be that when your ideas are bad no words can fix it.
The Department of War will not even say if they missed or not. Did they *want* to hit that school? If not the school then what?
What he says is little different than what the CEO in founders of Palantír say. They are all working together they all utter the same words salad cult babble at each other.
Do not forget that tech management were given military positions last year. They were basically integrated into the military command structure.
