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@amirbkhan the power of matematics!
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@amirbkhan
There is a case to be made that State Zionism was/remains significantly a Christian project
https://graceannhansen.medium.com/three-questions-about-zionism-58428aae1c66 -
Also that different people mean different things by "Zionist".
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@amirbkhan but zionism is another word for fascism?
The commonly accepted summary is that Zionists believe that Jews should reclaim their ancestral homeland (of which the present Israel is just a stepping stone), and anything done to to advance this goal is acceptable.
Seeing as the area is currently inhabited by people¹, the goal has some practical problems, which are very similar to what Nazis had when they tried to cull non-Germans from the multiethnic Central Europe to create their "genetically pure" Reich.
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@amirbkhan I appreciate this, but I admit being a little confused. I had assumed on needed to be Jewish to be a Zionist. I looked up the definition of Zionist and realized it is anyone supporting the creation and defense of a Jewish State. But does that mean that those who persecuted Jews but pushed for the creation of Israel were Zionists?
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The commonly accepted summary is that Zionists believe that Jews should reclaim their ancestral homeland (of which the present Israel is just a stepping stone), and anything done to to advance this goal is acceptable.
Seeing as the area is currently inhabited by people¹, the goal has some practical problems, which are very similar to what Nazis had when they tried to cull non-Germans from the multiethnic Central Europe to create their "genetically pure" Reich.
½@assimilateborg @amirbkhan
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¹ "The currently inhabited" means a lot of things.Firstly the area was never homogeneous, and the groups Zionists see as problems were named as problems even in the Old Testament.
Secondly the area had a native Jewish population that never emigrated. It's well-known base reason for the current problem that the freshly landed Zionists categorised themselves as "white", unlike those who stayed.
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@assimilateborg @amirbkhan
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¹ "The currently inhabited" means a lot of things.Firstly the area was never homogeneous, and the groups Zionists see as problems were named as problems even in the Old Testament.
Secondly the area had a native Jewish population that never emigrated. It's well-known base reason for the current problem that the freshly landed Zionists categorised themselves as "white", unlike those who stayed.
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There are a lot more to be said. To not go into details there exist a lot of people in "the West" who think that what Nazis did was unthinkable not due to the acts being immoral, but because they happened in Europe.
(And indeed, many of the Western powers have, before and after WW2, commited things that are very close to what Nazis did categorically, but they didn't do it in Europe, so it's ok. And as I'm sure you're aware: Middle-East isn't Europe.)
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@amirbkhan but zionism is another word for fascism?
@assimilateborg @amirbkhan it is the belief that from all other groups, jews had eternal right to the land and had the right to force an state on the local people. It is a supermasist ideology
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@amirbkhan Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
> The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.
> We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country.
> Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly
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@amirbkhan
There is a case to be made that State Zionism was/remains significantly a Christian project
https://graceannhansen.medium.com/three-questions-about-zionism-58428aae1c66@steff @amirbkhan no, there isn't. Yes evangelical christian want Israel for the rapture to happwn but christians did not push Herzl, Ben Gurion etc to thing about building the illigitimate state. This is a new trend to try to blame everything on the christians zionists because people are afraid to be labeled antisemite
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@amirbkhan I appreciate this, but I admit being a little confused. I had assumed on needed to be Jewish to be a Zionist. I looked up the definition of Zionist and realized it is anyone supporting the creation and defense of a Jewish State. But does that mean that those who persecuted Jews but pushed for the creation of Israel were Zionists?
@SvenNorth i follow
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
> The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere
> We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country
> Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly
