i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
-
@deshipu @eniko Yeah well, there is a reason funeral insurance and funeral plans paid in advance are a rising product to sell...
Also, there is a reason the whole economy is panicking. The moment the stock market goes down, there is no more pensions from investments. And the housing market is what support most of these people wealth (and by that I do not mean billionaires, I am the old lady down your street). And they are not spending money to maintain it, because hell, they will be dead soon.
So we will get a lot of fucked up housing on the market from inheritance...
-
@eniko There was another big difference. The dominant demographic group (boomers) were adult that had kids in school and were leading the politics to support that. They were paying off their house or buying theirs. They wanted good salary, paid time off, good school for their kids, etc.
A lot of the stuff in our past few decades in politics can be tracked to "boomers aged and moved the political window with them". Once their kids left school, they started cutting money to schools. Once their house were paid off, they move to building rentals and blowing up the rates. Once they started retiring and investing in pension, they cut PTO, support for unemployments, etc
Because by being such a big demographic group, they control the election in a large way.
@eniko I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuXzvjBYW8A
I do not agree with is solutions, and this is UK only data, but it is thorough data, really on point, and hard to get this kind of data actually. And everything points at equivalent situation in nearly all of the Western world.
-
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko 🧵 I'm older than you and lived through several global crises but *never* felt such dangerous and broken times like now, when some old men try to destroy all values and human rights, people have fought for so long.
But I also see, where we older ones failed: most people laughed at some far-right extremists and didn't take the dangers serious.
In the 1980s in Germany, as a journalist trainee, I had struggles with my boss because he didn't want me to write about the upcoming fascist groups. -
@eniko 🧵 I'm older than you and lived through several global crises but *never* felt such dangerous and broken times like now, when some old men try to destroy all values and human rights, people have fought for so long.
But I also see, where we older ones failed: most people laughed at some far-right extremists and didn't take the dangers serious.
In the 1980s in Germany, as a journalist trainee, I had struggles with my boss because he didn't want me to write about the upcoming fascist groups.@eniko 🧵Too ridiculous, too small, he said. In the late 1980s, that same boss was outed to be far-right. He had to go but we had tabloids welcoming such people. We also lost one of our best friends and colleagues, one of the best investigative journalists, to a Witness Protection Program. Neonazis had tried to kill her several times for her research. These nazis built the soil for today, and we were naive enough to think democracy would heal automatically. Had not to be defended actively.
-
@eniko 🧵Too ridiculous, too small, he said. In the late 1980s, that same boss was outed to be far-right. He had to go but we had tabloids welcoming such people. We also lost one of our best friends and colleagues, one of the best investigative journalists, to a Witness Protection Program. Neonazis had tried to kill her several times for her research. These nazis built the soil for today, and we were naive enough to think democracy would heal automatically. Had not to be defended actively.
@eniko 🧵 The young people indeed couldn't see all of this. We still had no real time social media, no global news in a stream.
When communism failed, the neoliberal hunt for greed/profit began in Eastern Europe. What I've seen there was pure colonialism and imperialism by big Western corporations. And people embraced the money and the marketing promises after the fall of the dictatorships. The 1990s were a big time for marketing. And the US sold their "dreams" ... we felt hope. -
@eniko We were ending welfare and giving everyone jobs. College was accessible to a larger portion of the population than ever before. There was real upward mobility, not least of which was being demonstrated by people like Jobs and Gates. We believed in a bright future.
@wyatt_h_knott @eniko The "ending welfare" part was directly tied to the rapid expansion of the prison industrial complex. The CIA flooding cities with crack fueled the tough on crime hysteria leading to the harsh sentences for petty crimes, the 3 strikes laws for example.
This era also saw rapid deindustrialization of Northern cities as union jobs were shipped to China. Wages stagnated for forty years beging with Reagan. GenX experienced the very end of the post WW2 economic expansion. -
its not something imaginary when people feel the weight of 30 years of global hollowing out of institutions, reductions in social safety nets in the name of austerity, and the rapacious pursuit of capital at all costs
-
idk man i just think telling people who long for the days when the social contract hadn't been irrevocably and unequivocally broken that they're stupid is mean spirited and counterproductive
@eniko Your analyse is on the point. We had severe crises before, yes. But we also still had this social contract. We had international agreements about human rights or atomic weapons, and could count that the UN Security Council stepped in and was heard ... even if nothing was perfect. We didn't have this all-destroying death cult of hyper-rich people. Now we have to fight for a humane world, we want to protect.
-
@eniko As an early-ish gen Xer, I think the difference isn't that things were better, but that we actually had hope that things were going in the right direction. The Nazis were defeated, the Communists were discredited, big wars were a thing of the past, and technology was viewed with CAUTIOUS optimism (don't forget that we had stuff like 3-mile island and then Cherynobl in recent memory). But a lot of it was social: segregation was over and civil rights were for everyone.
@wyatt_h_knott @eniko yes, I think direction of travel was good, then.
Thatcher was gone, the rest of the Tories were on the way out, opposition to Section 28 was growing, there were mainstream TV shows with kickass girls (Buffy) and respect for all (ST:TNG), we were fixing the hole in the ozone layer, the Berlin Wall fell, the economic mess of the 80s was subsiding...
But now, a lot of things are going backwards and we're working hard to tread water on others. This is not the future the 90s promised us. -
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko 90s was objectively better because the cold war and its nuclear threat was over and 9/11 had not happened yet, which lead to reintroduction of torture and many wars.
(Better - not fantastic, there was still the genocide in Yugoslavia and other terrible wars and civil wars.)
-
idk man i just think telling people who long for the days when the social contract hadn't been irrevocably and unequivocally broken that they're stupid is mean spirited and counterproductive
@eniko Pretty much the modern form of my generally Absolutely Loathed, Cringing "It Is What It Is" semi-deflection unto unchallenging acceptance.
-
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
People in general were more naive I think. People were so taken off guard by 9/11, but it was something that had been boiling for a while. It was the pin that popped that era of delusion and all the rot that capitalists had been hiding from us came flooding in
It was a bubble that needed to be burst for humanity to move forward, but the unfortunate reality that millenials and gen z have needed to wrap our heads around is that we can only work towards a better future we likely won't see
-
like yeah things weren't perfect and in many ways things weren't good, they were outright bad, even! but in many ways the 90s were not the kind of dystopia we find ourselves in today and maybe you shouldn't be condescending people about that
@eniko yeah, IDK, I remember many things from the 90s being good, like raising a family of four in a big flat on a teacher's salary, but also other bad things like the rampant sexism, unemployment and heroin plague (parks littered with needles). Most of these are local, but the main thing that's gone for me is a sense that the future was going to be better. It was, for a little while, and there it wasn't. And I don't see anything looking like it's going to improve in the near or even medium term future
-
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko Someone described the 90s as a party that not everyone was invited to. I had never been invited to those parties in the 70s and 80s, and yep, it was fun. But I was also uncomfortably aware of Gingrich, Clinton's triangulation, and spasms like Waco and Oklahoma. I am nostalgic still, but it was because we had more opportunities and choices.
-
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko I do think its important to not put the 90s on a pedestal. Its not a goal to return to. The hollowing out of society started in the 80s and continued in the 90s. Most of the tech dystopia crypto shit that happened recently is people trying to recreate the dot com bubble ideology, believing owning a domain name or a fartcoin or an nft will become worth something eventually...
We need to work to build a better world, and the 90s aren't a good blueprint for that world
-
idk man i just think telling people who long for the days when the social contract hadn't been irrevocably and unequivocally broken that they're stupid is mean spirited and counterproductive
@eniko that's the biggest thing, isn't it... It was reasonable to have an optimistic outlook on the future in the 90s, where as now it feels like it is a foregone conclusion that things are going to get a lot worse before there is any chance of improvement.
Shitting on the longing for that lost sense of what could have been feels like the negative side of nihilism... The "Tyler Durden" approach of crushing anything that doesn't align with that person's angry, scared, and hopeless outlook
-
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
By the 1990s, the neoliberal bullshit, which had burst into the mainstream with Reagan and Thatcher, was already having a dire effect — perhaps more noticeably to some of us older artsy-lefty types (perspective shifts with the baseline) — but it has definitely reached a deadly, fascist level now.
Nostalgia looks at the past with rose-tinted glasses and edits out the unpleasant bit. It is not nostalgia to say that many things have gone very wrong, have gotten worse since then.
-
R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
-
i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko Me and my Gen-X brother discussed this just yesterday and feel so sorry for people who will never know what’s it like to totally fuck up on a night out and it be forgotten.
“Pics or didn’t happen”. I was at university, then a raver in the 90s for context. -
@eniko 🧵 The young people indeed couldn't see all of this. We still had no real time social media, no global news in a stream.
When communism failed, the neoliberal hunt for greed/profit began in Eastern Europe. What I've seen there was pure colonialism and imperialism by big Western corporations. And people embraced the money and the marketing promises after the fall of the dictatorships. The 1990s were a big time for marketing. And the US sold their "dreams" ... we felt hope. -
idk man i just think telling people who long for the days when the social contract hadn't been irrevocably and unequivocally broken that they're stupid is mean spirited and counterproductive
@eniko one thing that gets me is that, for a brief moment in time, it felt like things were looking like they were going to get better - if finally looked like we were getting equal rights for a lot of folks who didn't have them - gay rights meant gay marriage became legal, disability rights were making places more accessible (as a wheelchair user in the 90s, this was awesome for me), Social support in my country was being built up to actually support people, things were genuinely looking up.
And then it's like the other shoe dropped and stomped on all that, and we're getting all the shitty opinions back like it's the 70s again, and a lot of those rights are being repealed.
I feel like things were still looking up at the start of 2016, and then by the end it suddenly fell off a cliff. (Although, admittedly, I was living in India at that point, and for 6 years didn't really see everything happening in the west, so I could be wrong). And I have to remind myself that was TEN years ago.
