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  3. Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!

Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!

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  • kelson@notes.kvibber.comK kelson@notes.kvibber.com

    @tnhd @rimu @dansup

    1. That's theory, not practice.
    2. Mastodon.social was simply an example.
    3. There have actually been instances that talked about (and possibly followed through on) blocking mastodon.social due to the number of bad actors who managed to slip through the cracks in moderation actions.
    tnhd@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
    tnhd@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
    tnhd@mastodon.social
    wrote last edited by
    #71

    @kelson
    According to you it might be no more than theory, but that might be due to a discrepancy in what's perceived proper moderation. As I said, *I* think moderation on .social is fine, as will most users of .social. (1/2)
    @rimu @dansup

    tnhd@mastodon.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
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    • tnhd@mastodon.socialT tnhd@mastodon.social

      @kelson
      According to you it might be no more than theory, but that might be due to a discrepancy in what's perceived proper moderation. As I said, *I* think moderation on .social is fine, as will most users of .social. (1/2)
      @rimu @dansup

      tnhd@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
      tnhd@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
      tnhd@mastodon.social
      wrote last edited by
      #72

      @kelson
      I don't know what you, and those instances, think are bad actors, but I suspect that might include people that .social, being relatively liberal, deliberately doesn't disallow. Concerning the objectively bad actors, they might just tend to go to .social due to the absence of reason to go elsewhere. You can't blame the .social moderators for that. (2/2)
      @rimu @dansup

      kelson@notes.kvibber.comK 1 Reply Last reply
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      • crse@social.linux.pizzaC crse@social.linux.pizza

        @dansup Should be optional?

        I blocked so many people on Twitter and Facebook, but their older quote are valid and merely giving context.

        Blocking people sometimes means "there's no wrong with them, I simply not interested in their post and don't want them to see me anymore."

        dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
        dalias@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
        dalias@hachyderm.io
        wrote last edited by
        #73

        @crse @dansup That's what muting is for. Blocking is to prevent them from contacting or driving contact to you from their audiences. For that purpose, you want old things severed too.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • tnhd@mastodon.socialT tnhd@mastodon.social

          @kelson
          > harassment, scams, or other abusive replies
          Those should be removed by server moderators. If the origin server doesn't take it down, other servers can decide to defederate it. If your own server neither defederates not deletes the reported replies, you should look for another server imho.
          @rimu @dansup

          foxyoreos@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
          foxyoreos@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
          foxyoreos@mastodon.social
          wrote last edited by
          #74

          @tnhd @kelson @rimu @dansup

          Good idea.

          > Let's imagine I post a bunch of antivax nonsense (or fascism, etc) and then block everyone who debunks me. Their replies are deleted, only leaving those that agree with me.

          Why wouldn't that also work for this scenario?

          foxyoreos@mastodon.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
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          • foxyoreos@mastodon.socialF foxyoreos@mastodon.social

            @tnhd @kelson @rimu @dansup

            Good idea.

            > Let's imagine I post a bunch of antivax nonsense (or fascism, etc) and then block everyone who debunks me. Their replies are deleted, only leaving those that agree with me.

            Why wouldn't that also work for this scenario?

            foxyoreos@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
            foxyoreos@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
            foxyoreos@mastodon.social
            wrote last edited by
            #75

            @tnhd @kelson @rimu @dansup

            I'm supposed to simultaneously believe that server-level moderation is enough to remove abusive replies or misinformation coming from other instances.. but not enough to remove misinformation if it's not in a reply?

            If somebody posts misinformation and disables replies, then report it, the same way you would with any other post. Easy.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • dansup@mastodon.socialD dansup@mastodon.social

              Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!

              javascript@app.wafrn.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
              javascript@app.wafrn.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
              javascript@app.wafrn.net
              wrote last edited by
              #76

              This is a very hard problem. And the risk of getting it wrong and having a lot of disinformation as a result is very big. This needs most cooperating software implementations to coordinate on blocking semanticis, like with GTS reply control.

              In my opinion this is one of the hardest problems of fedi.

              Imagine half of the responses you block still show in half of the instances that can see your post via federation. Some will see those blocked replies, some will not, and the more your post federates, the more inconsistent this will be. You have to account for this if you truly want to build this feature right.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • tnhd@mastodon.socialT tnhd@mastodon.social

                @kelson
                I don't know what you, and those instances, think are bad actors, but I suspect that might include people that .social, being relatively liberal, deliberately doesn't disallow. Concerning the objectively bad actors, they might just tend to go to .social due to the absence of reason to go elsewhere. You can't blame the .social moderators for that. (2/2)
                @rimu @dansup

                kelson@notes.kvibber.comK This user is from outside of this forum
                kelson@notes.kvibber.comK This user is from outside of this forum
                kelson@notes.kvibber.com
                wrote last edited by
                #77

                @tnhd @rimu @dansup I'm not blaming the .social moderators. I'm saying that there should be something the average user can do if and when the .social (or other large instance) moderators drop the ball and leaves an abusive/spammy/whatever reply standing.

                kelson@notes.kvibber.comK 1 Reply Last reply
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                • dansup@mastodon.socialD dansup@mastodon.social

                  Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!

                  benaveling@mastodon.worldB This user is from outside of this forum
                  benaveling@mastodon.worldB This user is from outside of this forum
                  benaveling@mastodon.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #78

                  There is at least one GitHub request for this.
                  Eg https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/15631

                  @dansup

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • the_moep@mastodon.deT the_moep@mastodon.de

                    @alterelefant @dansup No, a block has always only prevented you from reading what people write on all platforms, only bans remove their posts (or directy moderator action to remove posts).

                    A user should not be able to do such destructive actions to the global conversation on platforms run by other people, only on platforms were thet have such permissions (and with that some legal association with the platform operator) themselves.

                    fwaaron@social.coopF This user is from outside of this forum
                    fwaaron@social.coopF This user is from outside of this forum
                    fwaaron@social.coop
                    wrote last edited by
                    #79

                    @the_moep
                    I think you are ignoring the sense of space Mastodon gives for replies. It gives a sense that they are a part of a discussion within a digital space defined by the original post. The original poster should have some say over their sense of safety in the digital space of their own posts, and replies by blocked individuals should be disassociated from the post and not part of that digital space anymore. That's not destructive. It's not taking over another account or instance, it's taking control over your own account and the digital space Mastodon creates around it.

                    @alterelefant @dansup

                    alterelefant@mastodontech.deA 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • kelson@notes.kvibber.comK kelson@notes.kvibber.com

                      @tnhd @rimu @dansup I'm not blaming the .social moderators. I'm saying that there should be something the average user can do if and when the .social (or other large instance) moderators drop the ball and leaves an abusive/spammy/whatever reply standing.

                      kelson@notes.kvibber.comK This user is from outside of this forum
                      kelson@notes.kvibber.comK This user is from outside of this forum
                      kelson@notes.kvibber.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #80

                      @tnhd @rimu @dansup In short:

                      • I don't expect to be able to force-delete an abusive reply to one of my posts across the entire fediverse.
                      • I don't even expect to be able to prevent it from pointing back to my post.
                      • But I also don't expect to be obligated to continue pointing forward to it from mine.
                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • fwaaron@social.coopF fwaaron@social.coop

                        @the_moep
                        I think you are ignoring the sense of space Mastodon gives for replies. It gives a sense that they are a part of a discussion within a digital space defined by the original post. The original poster should have some say over their sense of safety in the digital space of their own posts, and replies by blocked individuals should be disassociated from the post and not part of that digital space anymore. That's not destructive. It's not taking over another account or instance, it's taking control over your own account and the digital space Mastodon creates around it.

                        @alterelefant @dansup

                        alterelefant@mastodontech.deA This user is from outside of this forum
                        alterelefant@mastodontech.deA This user is from outside of this forum
                        alterelefant@mastodontech.de
                        wrote last edited by
                        #81

                        @FWAaron
                        Agreed. Replies won't be removed but the reference between post and reply could / should be removed.
                        @the_moep @dansup

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • dansup@mastodon.socialD dansup@mastodon.social

                          Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!

                          tnhd@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tnhd@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tnhd@mastodon.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #82
                          This post is deleted!
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