I believe that the #accessibility of everyday tech for #screenReader users is on a slow but consistent decline.
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I believe that the #accessibility of everyday tech for #screenReader users is on a slow but consistent decline. Operating systems, browsers, messaging apps, email clients, even command line tools.
These things are not being replaced with more #accessible alternatives, but nor does the investment exist to stop the rot within the current options.
This in itself is concerning, particularly as it mirrors tech trends more broadly. But what I worry about quite a bit is what it does for user expectations.
What happens when generations of people grow up with inefficient keyboard access models, faux desktop apps, and a thousand tiny papercuts here and there? When the new baseline is worse than it was before, it takes that bit more effort to imagine and advocate for best rather than just better.
@kaveinthran @jscholes agree with you and your perspective and worry about the same
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I believe that the #accessibility of everyday tech for #screenReader users is on a slow but consistent decline. Operating systems, browsers, messaging apps, email clients, even command line tools.
These things are not being replaced with more #accessible alternatives, but nor does the investment exist to stop the rot within the current options.
This in itself is concerning, particularly as it mirrors tech trends more broadly. But what I worry about quite a bit is what it does for user expectations.
What happens when generations of people grow up with inefficient keyboard access models, faux desktop apps, and a thousand tiny papercuts here and there? When the new baseline is worse than it was before, it takes that bit more effort to imagine and advocate for best rather than just better.
@jscholes Yeah I worry about this as well, especially with the rapid proliferation of AI vibecoding. It's already affecting me, I don't tend to try new software as much anymore because I automatically expect that it won't be accessible, and then I'm surprised when I turn out to be wrong.
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If you're wondering what sort of #accessibility issues I mean when I say "papercuts," here are some examples:
First-letter navigation not working in commonly used parts of the Windows 11 UI, like "open with" dialogs and the system tray.
NVDA's browse mode suddenly becoming inactive and inoperable when transitioning between webpages.
Multi-line textareas being reported as "blank" in Chrome and Chromium-based apps.
Focus moving to the message list instead of the next or previous email when deleting content in Thunderbird.
These are things that can and should be fixed. But if or when they are, it'll be easy to write up another list of small, non-blocking issues that but nevertheless contribute to a frustrating, unproductive experience.
@jscholes The problem is that no matter how small the issues are, they still take the same level of effort to report. A thousand tiny paper cuts require a thousand times the time and energy as one giant blocker. It's just constant, never-ending irritation with no energy to do anything about it.
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If you're wondering what sort of #accessibility issues I mean when I say "papercuts," here are some examples:
First-letter navigation not working in commonly used parts of the Windows 11 UI, like "open with" dialogs and the system tray.
NVDA's browse mode suddenly becoming inactive and inoperable when transitioning between webpages.
Multi-line textareas being reported as "blank" in Chrome and Chromium-based apps.
Focus moving to the message list instead of the next or previous email when deleting content in Thunderbird.
These are things that can and should be fixed. But if or when they are, it'll be easy to write up another list of small, non-blocking issues that but nevertheless contribute to a frustrating, unproductive experience.
@jscholes Yep, that. First letter navigation is the particularly annoying one for me, it's like Microsoft for some reason forgot that was ever a thing. Whenever I hear that a part of Windows 11 is going to be redesigned I immediately go, oh great, now time to figure out which accessibility bugs we'll have to deal with and which conventions that worked for years no longer will.
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@jscholes Yep, that. First letter navigation is the particularly annoying one for me, it's like Microsoft for some reason forgot that was ever a thing. Whenever I hear that a part of Windows 11 is going to be redesigned I immediately go, oh great, now time to figure out which accessibility bugs we'll have to deal with and which conventions that worked for years no longer will.
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@Bruce @techsinger @simon Was this sent in response to the intended thread? If so, I'm struggling to understand its connection to the topic at hand.
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@Bruce @techsinger @simon Was this sent in response to the intended thread? If so, I'm struggling to understand its connection to the topic at hand.
@jscholes @techsinger @simon I was replying to one specific message in that thread, and that message was deleted later.
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@jscholes @techsinger @simon I was replying to one specific message in that thread, and that message was deleted later.
@Bruce @techsinger @simon Ah, I see. Must've missed it. Appreciate the explanation!
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If you're wondering what sort of #accessibility issues I mean when I say "papercuts," here are some examples:
First-letter navigation not working in commonly used parts of the Windows 11 UI, like "open with" dialogs and the system tray.
NVDA's browse mode suddenly becoming inactive and inoperable when transitioning between webpages.
Multi-line textareas being reported as "blank" in Chrome and Chromium-based apps.
Focus moving to the message list instead of the next or previous email when deleting content in Thunderbird.
These are things that can and should be fixed. But if or when they are, it'll be easy to write up another list of small, non-blocking issues that but nevertheless contribute to a frustrating, unproductive experience.
@jscholes I reported that Thunderbird issue a few days ago, I was a bit concerned it was just me. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2019407
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@jcsteh @jscholes The main difference is that you yourself use Firefox daily with NVDA, and if you introduce a major bug that tests don't catch yet, you'll notice it quickly yourself. When I look at chromium and the bug it introduces and sometimes keeps around for months or even years, it becomes apparent that there are no serious screen reader users on those teams to be annoyed by the bugs. Like all the hideous text bugs Chromium has on the various platforms. And no, even at its worse days, Firefox text bugs were never so annoying.
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@jcsteh @jscholes I agree. And I am grateful that you usually fix the Mac bugs I file fairly quickly, too.
Firefox is by far the most stable browser on Mac nowadays, what accessibility is concerned. Apple have had some huge problems in Safari on the Mac lately, not so bad on iPhone, but Firefox has been mostly very stable. And I only use an un-googled version of Chromium if I absolutely have to, because their accessibility bugs are just hideously annoying. Same goes for Electron apps.
