There’s a good case for this
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@inthehands maybe but I still think they’re worse than a bicycle
@inthehands okay well never mind bicycles. The launch Segway was $5000 (nearly $10000 in today’s money) for something big, heavy, with limited range, clunky steering, and slow charging.
The increase in popularity of e-bikes, scooters, and electric unicycles is partially driven by the fact that they’re way way better, but I think even more importantly, they’re affordable.
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I think everyone was wrong on this one. The segway was ok, better than the public gave it credit for, but it was never gonna be a world changing technology. I think the public backlash was against the billionaires telling us what the fuck to do. It came out before the media collapse and the rise of social media and the rise of effective Russian propaganda that taught the billionaires how to do their own propaganda.
Segway? A classic solution in search of s problem, and emblematic of one of tech's social problems.
The technology itself was at the time quite amazing. And most tech folk stopped there.
It was a social disaster. Its position in the world was something like enhanced pedestrian, not streetable. They took up more room in ped space than a wheelchair, but their users were well off abled nerds.
Segway gave nothing to people with mobiity issues. We gladly give up abled convenience to support folks in wheelchairs etc (most of us anyway), but Segways were toys for the already privileged demanding even moreaccommodation.
Technically clever gadgets should not take priority of peoples daily needs. We need systems thinking not toys for the rich.
Look at the tiny niche they live in now; mall and airport security guard mobility.
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Segway? A classic solution in search of s problem, and emblematic of one of tech's social problems.
The technology itself was at the time quite amazing. And most tech folk stopped there.
It was a social disaster. Its position in the world was something like enhanced pedestrian, not streetable. They took up more room in ped space than a wheelchair, but their users were well off abled nerds.
Segway gave nothing to people with mobiity issues. We gladly give up abled convenience to support folks in wheelchairs etc (most of us anyway), but Segways were toys for the already privileged demanding even moreaccommodation.
Technically clever gadgets should not take priority of peoples daily needs. We need systems thinking not toys for the rich.
Look at the tiny niche they live in now; mall and airport security guard mobility.
@tomjennings
At the time, toys for the rich yeah. These days we have lots of segway like devices, theyre inexpensive because of batteries and motors coming way down in price theyre smaller, and you see people riding them around college campuses and to and from public transport and things. so the execution on segways was early and clunky but the basic idea of an electric actively stabilized transport device is fine -
I periodically think about the hype around the Segway, how luminary types were over the moon for it in private demos but then the general public decided it was uncool, and think maybe actually the luminaries had it right and it’s the public that biffed it.
@inthehands I think a lot of the public dislike of Segways was the price point.
If they had come in at a more affordable price, we’d probably have seen much greater adoption. Sour grapes is a pretty good motivator if you can’t afford it, and that’ll shape public opinion pretty quickly.
The much cheaper price of e-bikes has overcome the “people are gonna be unhealthy” and “kids are too lazy pedal their own bikes” opposition… fewer sour grapes folks because there are fewer people who want but can’t afford them.
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@retech @inthehands @Nicovel0 With the exception of his deep connections to Epstein and people associated with Epstein. In that way, he's very much like the Broligarchy
@glnfld @inthehands @Nicovel0 That sucks. I had no idea.
Yet another one.
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I periodically think about the hype around the Segway, how luminary types were over the moon for it in private demos but then the general public decided it was uncool, and think maybe actually the luminaries had it right and it’s the public that biffed it.
@inthehands I think one of the key criteria for any solution for micro mobility is how mobile it is in itself.
I can lift a bicycle over stairs, get it into a bus or to my home. I don't like to, but I can, and it allows me to deal with the gaps in the current infrastructure.
E-bikes are already on the edge, as they are rather heavy, but still doable.
I have never seen a single picture of a person carrying a Segway.
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This is what I’m saying! Was it just 25 years ahead of its time? Or was it at just the right time, and we delayed the future by 25 years because we’re dumbasses?
the dollop story about the segway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoHIuZrqhSoor the cliff's notes version
https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-segway-is-dead-but-its-technology-and-vision-lives-on -
@inthehands well we’re definitely dumbasses so I’m inclined to agreeing with you
@Nicovel0 @inthehands We're definitely dumbasses for not jumping on personal e-transit vehicles sooner. But the Segway really was/is dorky. Ya just stand on it and lean!? Plus they're kinda clunky looking. And how do you carry stuff? E-scooters are sleek. And e-bikes can be tricked out with all kinds of gear for hauling cargo.
The Segway was expensive and not practical enough. Although it looked like fun, maybe.
I'd rather ride a bike though. -
I periodically think about the hype around the Segway, how luminary types were over the moon for it in private demos but then the general public decided it was uncool, and think maybe actually the luminaries had it right and it’s the public that biffed it.
@inthehands
The original Segways were designed in deliberate arrogant ignorance of sidewalks specifically and how people travel from place to place in cities in general. Not safe in car traffic. Too big to take on subways. A hazard to others on sidewalks. Bike lanes barely existed in most US cities.
I recall Steve Jobs saying cities will have to be reinvented to accommodate them.
So ... nah.
I think the technology wasn't ready. It needed to cook another 20 years. -
This is what I’m saying! Was it just 25 years ahead of its time? Or was it at just the right time, and we delayed the future by 25 years because we’re dumbasses?
@inthehands @Nicovel0 The scooters must be vastly cheaper than the Segway. The price curve has got to look something like solar power’s.
Also, most scooters around here have you adopt a skateboarder’s posture, which we all know is cool. Standing bolt upright gripping handles is not cool.
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(I also wonder how much social countermarketing petrochem slipped in to kill it. If that story’s known, it’s not known to me.)
A lot of replies accurately enumerate all of the very specific problems with the Segway at the time of release, and…
Yes, I get it, I’m old enough to remember! It was not at all ready for prime time! It was a flawed and expensive product!
…at time of release. That’s all true, and not my point. I’m not asking for a release post-mortem. Instead…
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A lot of replies accurately enumerate all of the very specific problems with the Segway at the time of release, and…
Yes, I get it, I’m old enough to remember! It was not at all ready for prime time! It was a flawed and expensive product!
…at time of release. That’s all true, and not my point. I’m not asking for a release post-mortem. Instead…
…I’m asking us to pause all of that entrenched reaction, and think about why our reaction was:
“What a bad product! How douchy! Ha ha!”
…instead of what was in hindsight probably a much better reaction:
“Oh, what a good idea for a product •direction•! All-electric human-sized transportation…huh, that might just change the world! If we can improve on this very clumsy first attempt at execution….”
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A lot of replies accurately enumerate all of the very specific problems with the Segway at the time of release, and…
Yes, I get it, I’m old enough to remember! It was not at all ready for prime time! It was a flawed and expensive product!
…at time of release. That’s all true, and not my point. I’m not asking for a release post-mortem. Instead…
@inthehands I would say the real problem is that our society is hard wired to think that anything that is in any way whatsoever associated with "laziness" in any form whether right or wrong is pure, unadulterated evil. Anyone who in any way whatsoever desires to do a thing that is considered by others to be lazy is evil and bad.
It's a complete load, but society needs us to think of "lazy" as "useless" and "a drain on society."
Aka work until you hurt and then die.
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…I’m asking us to pause all of that entrenched reaction, and think about why our reaction was:
“What a bad product! How douchy! Ha ha!”
…instead of what was in hindsight probably a much better reaction:
“Oh, what a good idea for a product •direction•! All-electric human-sized transportation…huh, that might just change the world! If we can improve on this very clumsy first attempt at execution….”
@inthehands Similar thing happened with the Sinclair C5
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…I’m asking us to pause all of that entrenched reaction, and think about why our reaction was:
“What a bad product! How douchy! Ha ha!”
…instead of what was in hindsight probably a much better reaction:
“Oh, what a good idea for a product •direction•! All-electric human-sized transportation…huh, that might just change the world! If we can improve on this very clumsy first attempt at execution….”
The micromobility revolution was •right there• 25 years ago, if only we’d been willing to go for it, if only we’d been able to see it. That’s…what, 15? 20? years head start on how it’s unfolded.
That’s a head start I really wish we’d had on the current climate disaster that’s unfolding. But no, we were too busy making fun of it for being nerdy.
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@inthehands Similar thing happened with the Sinclair C5
@sanityinc @inthehands Wowzers, yeah, a product decades ahead of its time.
I see so many kids whizzing by on e-scooters on their way to school these days. Chap up the street rides an e-unicycle in full leathers and a crash helmet to work. And so on.
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The micromobility revolution was •right there• 25 years ago, if only we’d been willing to go for it, if only we’d been able to see it. That’s…what, 15? 20? years head start on how it’s unfolded.
That’s a head start I really wish we’d had on the current climate disaster that’s unfolding. But no, we were too busy making fun of it for being nerdy.
@inthehands meanwhile/and ebikes are a revolution going on big-time all around us
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@glnfld @inthehands @Nicovel0 That sucks. I had no idea.
Yet another one.
@retech @inthehands @Nicovel0 It's been speculated on for almost a decade now, but the recent releases essentially confirmed it. This article summarizes everything from pre-"The Files" release if you want to learn more. https://christine-negroni.medium.com/jeffrey-epstein-dean-kamen-connection-through-aviation-influencer-bb0e767dbfcf
There's still no legal proof, but for anyone capable of critical thought the evidence is extremely damning.
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The micromobility revolution was •right there• 25 years ago, if only we’d been willing to go for it, if only we’d been able to see it. That’s…what, 15? 20? years head start on how it’s unfolded.
That’s a head start I really wish we’d had on the current climate disaster that’s unfolding. But no, we were too busy making fun of it for being nerdy.
To be clear: the Segway as released was •not• a very good product. But it was not a worse product than, say, the Apple-1, which was also clumsy, nerdy, impractical, expensive. ($3400 in today’s money and it didn’t even have a keyboard!)
Yet in the latter case the response was “This is the future! Let’s do this! Let’s figure it out!” And with the Segway, the response was “How mockable, nobody should ever try to build anything like this ever again!”
A crumb went down the wrong way with micromobility in 2001, and I’m not willing to lay that entire at the feet of one product’s marketing team. We collectively screwed up.
ETA: This •started• as a thread about e-bikes and e-scooters; scroll up
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@inthehands meanwhile/and ebikes are a revolution going on big-time all around us
@grechaw
That is where the thread started, yes
